Cracked Premier IDT Eliminator Block

senting pm

Lem Evans wrote:

LEM’s SLEEVING REPAIR
Lem’s idea to sleeve the block has merit but I believe that it might not be the best solution. If this block was cast with a Sportsman water jacket, the thin wall condition would exist between the other cylinder bores which potentially could fail later. Personally, I would like to know the thickness between the other bores at the same location.
Thanks,
Jay

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Agreed: If in fact the block has the non-siamesed water cores the other 7 cly. should be sonic checked before any investment was make to repair it.[/quote]

After reading all the replies I just had to know more about what this block
was like inside so this afternoon I took it over to Borowski Race Enterprises,
a local experienced race motor builder, (http://borowskirace.com) to have
their experts look at it and sonic test it. It turns out its NOT siamese!!!!
Heres the numbers on the 1-4 bank that cracked. We checked the other
bank as well and got the same result. Although this block has all the other
features of being a "Premier" casting its sure NOT siamese and solid between
the cylinder!!! The Boworski folks said that even if the cracked #2 cyl could
be sleeved the others would probably crack and fail very soon after.



I talked to Mike at Eliminator and informed him as soon as I got back
to my shop. Mike wants to inspect it before making any promises. So
he is paying the freight and its shipping to him tomorrow. He also said
he will have some new Premier casting available in Aug so there is still
a glimmer of hope!!! And so far, Mike is being a stand up supplier. So
stay tuned.....

Also, just want to say THANKS to you BBF guys that sent me PMs
offering me blocks they have in their shops and arent using! What
a great bunch of guys you are!!!!! But for now I'll wait and see if
Eliminator is going to stand behind their product.

Rich

Rich,
We have a new block or 2 here in GA...if you need.
Call me at 678-458-2033 or Ted at 770-491-0653
Keith

AlkyPinto wrote:

I talked to Mike at Eliminator and informed him as soon as I got back
to my shop. Mike wants to inspect it before making any promises. So
he is paying the freight and its shipping to him tomorrow. He also said
he will have some new Premier casting available in Aug so there is still
a glimmer of hope!!! And so far, Mike is being a stand up supplier. So
stay tuned.....

Also, just want to say THANKS to you BBF guys that sent me PMs
offering me blocks they have in their shops and arent using! What
a great bunch of guys you are!!!!! But for now I'll wait and see if
Eliminator is going to stand behind their product.

Rich

If the block is indeed what you say it is and NOT siamese between the bores, IF it was bought new, they legally have to stand behind it or it becomes a legal case of fraud.
IF it was not bought new then they have a way out however, a stand-up manufacturer would still cover the block AND all the additional machining it took to get it in the configuration it is now would be done except maybe final honing.
If it was truly a manufacturing snafu, I know FRPP would...

rmcomprandy wrote:

AlkyPinto wrote:

I talked to Mike at Eliminator and informed him as soon as I got back
to my shop. Mike wants to inspect it before making any promises. So
he is paying the freight and its shipping to him tomorrow. He also said
he will have some new Premier casting available in Aug so there is still
a glimmer of hope!!! And so far, Mike is being a stand up supplier. So
stay tuned.....

Also, just want to say THANKS to you BBF guys that sent me PMs
offering me blocks they have in their shops and arent using! What
a great bunch of guys you are!!!!! But for now I'll wait and see if
Eliminator is going to stand behind their product.

Rich

If the block is indeed what you say it is and NOT siamese between the bores, IF it was bought new, they legally have to stand behind it or it becomes a legal case of fraud.
IF it was not bought new then they have a way out however, a stand-up manufacturer would still cover the block AND all the additional machining it took to get it in the configuration it is now would be done except maybe final honing.
If it was truly a manufacturing snafu, I know FRPP would...

there was a forum member on Chilles forum .. 54net. or the newer that had a Ford block . Ford only replaced it , no payment for the machine work

Rich,
I wonder if you have the "HP Billet" model of the Eliminator block, not the Premier.
Here is the description of the "HP Billet model":
"The HP Billet block has water between the cylinder bores and therefore capable of a 4.500” bore diameter. It is dressed with all 4-bolt main caps, however #2, #3 and #4 caps are machined billet 8620 steel and #1 and #5 caps are nodular cast iron. The HP Billet block has a standard valley tray, hardened fasteners, and a cam tunnel machined to 2.50”."

From several years of experience with the Eliminator blocks, I can tell you that Mike is the kind of businessman who has supported his products and taken care of any issues.
I thought we had a couple of Premier blocks in stock, but just discovered that they have been sold. We have more on order....
Thanks,
Keith Fulp
678-458-2033

DanH wrote:

rmcomprandy wrote:

AlkyPinto wrote:

I talked to Mike at Eliminator and informed him as soon as I got back
to my shop. Mike wants to inspect it before making any promises. So
he is paying the freight and its shipping to him tomorrow. He also said
he will have some new Premier casting available in Aug so there is still
a glimmer of hope!!! And so far, Mike is being a stand up supplier. So
stay tuned.....

Also, just want to say THANKS to you BBF guys that sent me PMs
offering me blocks they have in their shops and arent using! What
a great bunch of guys you are!!!!! But for now I'll wait and see if
Eliminator is going to stand behind their product.

Rich

If the block is indeed what you say it is and NOT siamese between the bores, IF it was bought new, they legally have to stand behind it or it becomes a legal case of fraud.
IF it was not bought new then they have a way out however, a stand-up manufacturer would still cover the block AND all the additional machining it took to get it in the configuration it is now would be done except maybe final honing.
If it was truly a manufacturing snafu, I know FRPP would...

there was a forum member on Chilles forum .. 54net. or the newer that had a Ford block . Ford only replaced it , no payment for the machine work

No there wouldn't be any payment; it would get bored to the correct size before shipping.
I used to do FRPP waranty work and I have done this very thing when an A460 block was returned because it had been bored and hit a core wire, (that couldn't have been detected until it was bored). A new block already bored but, not honed was sent.
NO money or extra payment was made.

>> No there wouldn't be any payment; it would get bored to the correct
>> size before shipping. I used to do FRPP waranty work and I have done
>> this very thing when an A460 block was returned because it had been
>> bored and hit a core wire, (that couldn't have been detected until it
>> was bored). A new block already bored but, not honed was sent.

I did purchase the block NEW from Jay/John at IDT as a Premier model.
Man it would sure be nice to get a replacement already machined!!!
I had a lot of money in machine work in mine and not looking forward
to that expense again. Alignbore, deck height, cyl bore, roller cam
bearings, notching the bottom of the bores to clear the rod bolts.,
etc. Be great if I only had to hone it to fit my pistons!!!

Kieth - My block has the Premier casting features in the valley, motor
mounts, cam tunnel, starter location and came with all 5 four bolt
billet main caps. So other then being siamese it appears to be the
"Premier" model. We'll never know about iron recipe?

I'm not bashing Eliminator or IDT. The Premier block is state of art
and a really beautiful piece of work. My hemi motor in the Pinto
has one and its been fine. I have a Ford Motorsports block in another
motor and the Eliminator far exceeds its design. As a BBF racer our
aftermarket block selections are extremely limited!!! So we really
need these guys to do well and prosper. We dont have Dart, World
or Brodix options that Walmart carries on the shelf. It appears I just
got a casting mistake somehow for this model? Its on its way back
to Mike at Eliminator today. So stay tuned.....

your luck is almost as good as mine! now i hate to start my new motor,its an eliminator ultra.

.......... or is it?

Since I have the Pinto hemi motor apart and its also an Eliminator "Premier"
model block I thought I'd sonic test it just for peace of mind. I'm happy
to say it tested good and it IS SIAMESE between cylinders (.300"+).
Still no word from Mike at Eliminator yet on my "non-siamese" Premier
block that cracked out of the new Comet racecar. So stay tuned on
that.....[u]

for sure you didnt get what you thought you paid for, looks like you should get a new block IMO................if not take it to yellowbullet.................That will get some results I promise....

Mike from Eliminator inspected the block and responded today.
I promised not to air all the dirty laundry how & why this happened
in the first place. Mike is standing behind his product and DID agree
to replace the block with a real siamese Premier model WITHIN A
MONTH. He wont machine it to my bore & deck specs, but I'm
okay with that as long as I get a replacement SIAMESE model
within a month! So the jury stays out and the clock is ticking
till Sept 10th. Stay tuned.....[u]

Good to hear. Like Jon said, if you get no satisfaction take it to the Bullet, you will get results.

We've always had good dealings with Eliminator, I'm sure he will take care of you.

Always nice to hear of a company like this standing behind their product and making a customer happy.

schmitty wrote:Always nice to hear of a company like this standing behind their product and making a customer happy.

X2.

Bill

A month ago yesterday, Mike Bowery - Eliminator Products promised me
a replacement "Premier" block for the non-siamiese "Industrial" model
I was mistakenly sent and cracked. A month of precious racing season
has come and gone and my new "Premier" block still is NOT HERE! I've had
numerous discussions with Mike and he HAS BEEN stand up in answering
my calls and returning messages. And in his defense, I am told my new
"Premier" (siamese) block is 2nd in line at LSM and partially machined,
but on hold due to other LSM priorities. Mike is equally frustrated as
NINE OTHER customer blocks are also in the queue and on hold at LSM.
With only about 6 weeks of racing left in the season here in the Northern
Midwest I'm not very confident I'll have the new car out again this year??
But stay tuned, it aint over yet......

Thats frustrating,but at least you guy's are staying in communication. Thats all you can ask if they are trying. I will always give someone the benefit of the dought if he answers my calls and stays in contact. Good luck Rich.

hi,i am new to this forum, we are putting our first ELIMINATOR bb604 together and after reading about this cylinder problem , i was very interested!!! sonic testing results were very good,considering our last A460 was junk. {core shift} one problem with the PREMIER block was fitting the main bearings and rear seal due to bad machining finish, this required hand finishing. this a new block but possibly 6/7 years old. imported into australia 3/4 years ago, i hope you can sort out your engine but remember there is NO WARRANTY at all on any race car parts anywhere

werneil wrote:.... but remember there is NO WARRANTY at all on any race car parts anywhere

Werneil, this was NOT a warranty issue. This was a FRAUD issue! I purchased
a Premier SIAMESE block and received a Premier NON-SIAMESE block. Although
it probably happened by freak mistake, its still FRAUD and had nothing to do with warranty.

what did the dealer say you bought the block from?

BOSS 429 wrote:what did the dealer say you bought the block from?

This thread lists the whole story to date if you read thru it.

Bottom line is, it was a freak mistake and he will replace it with
a true siamese Premier block. He has 20 castings at LSM
waiting to be machined. Mine is #1 in line. I spoke to Steve Jr
at LSM last week and he said he had a broken machine he
was getting repaired. As soon at it was fixed he said he'd be
doing the blocks. I believe all 20 are spoken for?

AlkyPinto wrote:

werneil wrote:.... but remember there is NO WARRANTY at all on any race car parts anywhere

Werneil, this was NOT a warranty issue. This was a FRAUD issue! I purchased
a Premier SIAMESE block and received a Premier NON-SIAMESE block. Although
it probably happened by freak mistake, its still FRAUD and had nothing to do with warranty.

I'd be careful tossing around that word FRAUD. If someone sells you something that is not right, but is not aware of the mistake that is NOT fraud. Fraud is when someone knowingly sells you something they know is not as represented.

From what you have written about your defective block it does not sound like they knew your specific block was defective, and since you have brought the defect to their attention their replacing the block is a simple case of making good on a defective product.

X2