Not bbf but quick question on some modern muscle

I'm thinking about trying to organize some truck pulling classes, and IMO I want to move on from classes of the past (cast iron intake and exhaust big block), continue with the 470-480" classes with alum intakes, headers, 530" stuff..  And that leads me to thinking about modern muscle.  Trying to take advantage of all the 5.x liter engines rolling around.  
My question is, if one were to put a "oem" head rule on the class does one of the manufacturers have an exploitable advantage, or can they all be serious players?  I know wording of said rule could change things.
Any ideas conventional, unconventional appreciated.
Thanks in advance

I take it your talking about 5.0 liter 302 engines and 5.8 351's ? If your including Dodge and Chevy , you need to let them swap heads from all small blocks. 302 on 351w, 351C on 351w . You need to be able to run the Cleveland heads to be able to run against the Chevys and hp 340 dodge stuff.

JMHO

I'm more looking at the modular ford stuff, modern hemi, LS Chevy stuff

There would be a lot of real careful thinking as here is some pretty serious race parts with the blue oval stamp on it, likewise with the pentastar and the GM stuff.

I think with the OEM rule it might be tough for the older stuff to compete with the modern stuff. Maybe I'm not giving the older stuff enough credit. I don't want to close the door to too many people if possible.

I am not wanting Ford to have a leg up, or a disadvantage that will just annoy all the competitors.

IMO a class with a 79 ford pulling against a 2007 dodge, and a 2010 nissan, 97 chev, and so on would be interesting to watch. Maybe I'm dreaming...

Diggindeeper wrote:I'm more looking at the modular ford stuff, modern hemi, LS Chevy stuff

There would be a lot of real careful thinking as here is some pretty serious race parts with the blue oval stamp on it, likewise with the pentastar and the GM stuff.  

I think with the OEM rule it might be tough for the older stuff to compete with the modern stuff.  Maybe I'm not giving the older stuff enough credit.   I don't want to close the door to too many people if possible.

I am not wanting Ford to have a leg up, or a disadvantage that will just annoy all the competitors.  

IMO a class with a 79 ford pulling against a 2007 dodge, and a 2010 nissan, 97 chev, and so on would be interesting to watch.  Maybe I'm dreaming...

Would you have a cubic in rule!
I think head wise ford has the advantage cubic in wise chevy has the advantage
I like the idea !

Yeah I'm thinking in the 380" range
In that range you could see a Windsor, a Cleveland, an FE, a BBF, a Modular, and a 6.2l ford. I know that's wishful thinking but that's what I like about that size of class. GM has a few different combos, as well as mopar's. and the yotas and nissans are a factor.

Tire size , cam size or vacuum rule ? Weight ?

I hope you get it going !

If the fords can run the 4 valve heads then game on.............

Probably stay with a 33" tire, no vacuum rule, weight. I dunno. Maybe 5200# or so.
Still spitballing.

IDT-572 wrote:If the fords can run the 4 valve heads then game on.............

x2! i like the idea.it would put a lot of everyday 4x4 guys in a class to play.

I agree if they can run the 4V stuff would be great, but the Two valve stuff make good power and can be very competitive !

Is a n351 Windsor going to be in the same ballpark?

Diggindeeper wrote:Is a n351 Windsor going to be in the same ballpark?

As far as Windsor cast Iron heads go make good power ! If this is what your talking about.

http://www.fordracingparts.com/download/charts/N351_Sportsman_Head_Product_Specs.pdf

cool40 wrote:

IDT-572 wrote:If the fords can run the 4 valve heads then game on.............

x2! i like the idea.it would put a lot of everyday 4x4 guys in a class to play.

That's what I would like to see.
Keep the weight down, Reese hitch, with a 24" or lower height so the 1/2 ton stuff can live (possibly)

I would not rule out the 4v heads.
How comparible is the LS stuff, or the Hemi?

whitefield wrote:

Diggindeeper wrote:Is a n351 Windsor going to be in the same ballpark?

As far as Windsor cast Iron heads go make good power ! If this is what your talking about.

http://www.fordracingparts.com/download/charts/N351_Sportsman_Head_Product_Specs.pdf

Yes.
But can't allow any brand to get the competitive edge.

The Ls stuff is competitive but I think the Ford 4v stuff have made more power and has the fastest 1/4 mile time of the two. Not sure where the Hemi. Stuff rates!

Is it fair to say the big 3's modern offerings are all competitive?

Small blocks of the past could all be competitive with OEM offerings with the exception of the Windsor?
Unless its allowed to have a factory race head or aft market?

LSX vs. Windsor will be a problem with a stock head rule I believe. If 4 Valve is let in then you will hear the Chevy and Dodge guys squawking. What Blake said about the Clevors might fly, and is a good idea, but those heads, stock 4V closed chamber heads esp. , are not very common any more. The 2v Cleveland, Modified/400 heads are pretty common, and closed chamber 2V Australian heads may come into play. At 380 CID the 351M/400 ported 2V heads may work, and or common? Then you will need an after market 3.75" crankshaft, with the old Ford engines and the Chevy guys will use 400 crank to build 377's. IF you let the CID rule go to 408CID the 400 Ford guy's might be competitive agaist the LS's, esp. if Chi heads come in if you allow aftermaket heads. It would seem the cheaper it is to run in the class the more people will join. Just a few idea's.

supervel45 wrote:LSX vs. Windsor will be a problem with a stock head rule I believe. If 4 Valve is let in then you will hear the Chevy and Dodge guys squawking. What Blake said about the Clevors might fly, and is a good idea, but those heads, stock 4V closed chamber heads esp. , are not very common any more. The 2v Cleveland, Modified/400 heads are pretty common, and closed chamber 2V Australian heads may come into play. At 380 CID the 351M/400 ported 2V heads may work, and or common? Then you will need an after market 3.75" crankshaft, with the old Ford engines and the Chevy guys will use 400 crank to build 377's. IF you let the CID rule go to 408CID the 400 Ford guy's might be competitive agaist the LS's, esp. if Chi heads come in if you allow aftermaket heads. It would seem the cheaper it is to run in the class the more people will join. Just a few idea's.

I'm not against a bit more cubes, but maybe to start with keep the cubes down as to not scare away the street trucks.  I love watching truck pulling at every level, but I find the crowd gets into the off the street stuff more.  Their buddy, cousin, jackass they can't stand etc... Cheer when they pull well, cheer when they break,  At least at the local fair pulls.  

The part about some of the older good stuff getting harder to find,  is exactly why I'd like to find a way to get the modern stuff in.   I think going aft market may be detrimental to gaining numbers (to start with) except for if you can factor out the "race heads".

  [quote="Diggindeeper"]I'm more looking at the modular ford stuff, modern hemi, LS Chevy stuff

I am confused   !

Are you wanting to run this stuff ^^^^^^ or the old stuff ?

The new stuff the 3 companies wil be competetive as well as toyota and nissan .
If it is the old stuff that has been run for years then Blake would be right .

whitefield wrote:  

Diggindeeper wrote:I'm more looking at the modular ford stuff, modern hemi, LS Chevy stuff

 I am confused    !

 Are you wanting to run this stuff ^^^^^^ or the old stuff  ?

 The new stuff the 3 companies  wil be competetive as well as toyota and nissan .
 If it is the old stuff that has been run for years then Blake would be right .

I want EVERYONE to pull.        

If they can all in the same class with structured rules, that's a good thing.
More trucks brings more crowd, more crowd pays more gate, eats more meat on a stick and cotton candy.
They also increase the chance that I don't pay purse out of pocket.   

Diggindeeper wrote:

whitefield wrote:  

Diggindeeper wrote:I'm more looking at the modular ford stuff, modern hemi, LS Chevy stuff

 I am confused    !

 Are you wanting to run this stuff ^^^^^^ or the old stuff  ?

 The new stuff the 3 companies  wil be competetive as well as toyota and nissan .
 If it is the old stuff that has been run for years then Blake would be right .

I want EVERYONE to pull.        

If they can all in the same class with structured rules, that's a good thing.
More trucks brings more crowd, more crowd pays more gate, eats more meat on a stick and cotton candy.
They also increase the chance that I don't pay purse out of pocket.   

Have you done any more thinking on this ?  

Yes. Lots of research too
Talking to some of my truck puller buds,  everyone seems to be in favor of it.  
Started sketching some rules.  
Engine:
380"
Oem heads, block
No sheet metal intake
Oem EFI or 4150 carb
Chassis exit headers allowed (no fenderwell, or upright)
Exhaust through muffler(s)
N/A Gas only, no NOS
Engine must match truck

That's basically the engine specs I've started on.
I read through hours of stuff on the Internet, hard to filter the BS sometimes, but what I found is some of the current stuff are the real deal.  (Read eagle, apache hemi)  But after I really thought about it, a truck putting down 400 on the tires would likely be a serious contender, and I think they all have the capability to get in that ballpark.

Sounds pretty good. It will probably be a late model fest, with the cylinder head rule.

I'm in favor of that. Scouring for 40 year old iron is getting tired

Diggindeeper wrote:I'm in favor of that.  Scouring for 40 year old iron is getting tired

I hear you. Most of the old trucks are souped up (aftermarket heads), and alot converted to BigBlocks anyway. Try it any see. Can always tweak the rules later, after you get feedback.