1970 Mustang AJE front suspension conversion.

Matt Jewell wrote:I'm glad I stopped by today, haven't been on this site in quite a while.I have seen you post on YB and Maybe IndexRacer.net? Good to here you will be running 10.00 Index this  season, are you heading to MD. or where? I have talked myself out of trying this same thing on my Cougar, alot of work. I put my Capri together because it was too easy and lighter. I'll be following this project. Some people don't understand keeping a Street Car feel to such a classic body style. Installing a complete tube frame Mustang II A-Arm style clip just wouldn't look correct on such a nice car. Keep posting and good luck.

I run at VMP in Va. I'll be at YBN later this year. I may run 10.0 index at Richmond too if they have it. I havent been on "indexracer.net". I'll have to check it out sometime. We may be doing a track rental at MIR this spring.

Before I bought this kit I went to a chassis shop. He is a very reputable guy that builds grudge cars for people full time. I told him what the kit costs and what it included. He told me that would be about the same amount it would take for him to build it all. I like to learn and take on a challenge so I decided to do this myself. Its a lot of work but is worth it. For the guys that don't have as much faith in yourself or the tools and time, I wouldn't recommend it.

This picture was the kit just thrown together on the car to check a few things. Not a single bolt was tight. Its kind of like setting a new set of heads on a junk block and taking a picture.LOL.

For the guys that will not be running a midplate and powerglide. If you look at the above picture you can see the AJE engine mounts in the picture. Compared to the crites mounts I had it moved the engine back about 1-1/2. I don't know what that will do as far as your stock C-6 mount and driveshaft. Just be aware. I'll post a pic of my old engine mounts to help.

DILLIGASDAVE wrote:

richter69 wrote:.......I picked up some slick spherical upper mounts for my new struts tonight.......

It sucks that Ford decided to design their OEM Mustang spindles with an "off centerline" offset strut-to-spindle attachment point which increases the need for a spherical ball upper mount to deal with the strut C/L misalignment-sweep when turning. Things would have been so much easier if they had just mounted the strut to the spindle on center with the top mount-to-ball joint centerline like a true McPherson strut design.

Also sucks that AJE doesn't make an adjustable cartridge insert for their own strut design. I wonder why they don't?  

You would think when first designing their own strut/spindle design, the guys at AJE would have "adjustable valving" at the top of the list of things to include in their design.    

this is why Im redoing all this crap, all said and done it will all bolt in Ill just have to shorten the tie rods and recheck bumpsteer etc..... weld the new spherical mounts on top.

Some spindle pictures.

I got the midplate lined up and in place. Bolted the engine to all of it and lined the engine plate up. I went as low and back as I could. Make me some brackets for the motorplate tomorrow night and hopefully weld some stuff up. These headers "hooker 6224" sit high compared to the old stuff. Got the old flange off the steering shaft also out. Tailshaft to driveshaft angle looks to be around 4*. I could make a new trans mount and drop but that would make the engine worse on being level.Its 3* from level as of now. I have nothing set in stone yet......Your opinions please????????

70FB wrote:.........Tailshaft to driveshaft angle looks to be around 4*..........

Is that 4* U-joint operating angle positive [ /\ ] or negative [ \/ ]?

Either way that much angle sounds like a lot IMO, especially for a drag car. Did you measure the angle with the rear suspension compressed/rear housing sitting at ride-race height in relation to the chassis, or with the rear suspension fully extended/rear housing hanging free? If you measured it with the rear housing hanging free by mistake (instead of at ride height), and you have a decent amount of suspension travel, that can increase the observed U-joint operating angle numbers at both the pinion's and slip yoke's U-joints.

Rear suspension was compressed. I don't know which way is negative or positive but I can draw it.


__engine-trans-tailshaft- 4*
                                    _______driveshaft______________  2*
                                                                                          ---pinion---


This didn't come out right. Anyway driveshaft is 4* down from tailshaft.

mine was goofy like that, when I did the front half i let the driveline geometry dictate where the motor went, i just made the rack and lower control arms work around everything else.

richter69 wrote:mine was goofy like that, when I did the front half i let the driveline geometry dictate where the motor went, i just made the rack and lower control arms work around everything else.

Did you make the kmember yourself? This one sits about 3-4 inches below the frame.

70FB wrote:....... I don't know which way is negative or positive.........

When viewed from the side a U-joint's operating angle is "positive" if the U-joint forms the "peak" (high point) in relation to the two shaft's centerlines crossing each other (usually the slip yoke-to-driveshaft operating angle is a positive angle). And is a "negative" angle if the U-joint forms the "valley" (low point) in relation to the two shaft's centerlines crossing each other (usually the driveshaft-to-pinion operating angle is a negative angle).

On a 4-link or ladder bar "drag only" car (both back-half & full chassis) that will never see any street/highway use I usually mockup the driveline angles during the initial build like this.....

#1 Set/compress the rear suspension to the desired "race ready" ride height in relation to the rear frame/body/chassis.

#2 Hang the engine & trans in the car so that (when viewed from the side) the crankshaft/tailshaft centerline points directly at the pinion centerline while at the same time point the pinion centerline directly at the crankshaft/tailshaft centerline. Doing this during mockup will not only make both the engine centerline & pinion centerline parallel to each other, it will also make both U-joint operating angles equal 0.00* at this point during the mockup/build.

#3 After the car is finished and sitting on the ground at full race weight (and at the same ride height used during mockup), you then adjust in a small amount of the desired negative pinion angle that's used to offset X amount of positive pinion rotation that happens during launch loading. This will result in the front slip yoke U-joint having roughly half the operating angle of the rear pinion U-joint operating angle while the car is sitting "static" or at rest (not under launch loading). This slight angle difference front vs rear is because the pinion centerline is being adjusted/rotated down a given amount, but the crank/tailshaft centerline hasn't moved any. So as an example when using this method if the end result is you adjusted in say -1.00* operating angle at the pinion, the slip yoke U-joint operating angle will be somewhere around  +0.50*. Or if you adjusted in say -1.50* at the pinion, the slip yoke angle will be somewhere about +0.75*.



It should be noted that it really doesn't matter in a drag only car if the end result is the engine's crank centerline is pointing "nose up", "level", or "nose down" in relation to the ground. What's important is that the driveline angles are where they need to be to help keep the driveshaft/U-joints "happy", and as close to being "in phase" as possible, under launch loading forces. The engine ending up being nose up, level, or nose down is just a by-product of (A) how high/low you want the car to sit at ride height (B) how high/low the front chassis design-layout (& assorted suspension components) allows you hang the engine-trans off the ground, (C) the rear tire diameter and/or the rear housing height off the ground, and (D) factors A, B, & C all combined while still keeping the driveline angles needed.

Thanks again Dave, So I'm positive 4* at the tailshaft and negative 2* at the pinion.

Also with that info you supplied. It seems I could make the trans mount lower to get the 4* down to a 2 or so. Or raise the engine which I'd like to keep it down low.
The kmember I don't really want to mess with as far as dropping it down because the oil pan is on it now. I plan on working on it again tomorrow night see what I can do to get closer. I'll look at it a little closer then .

70FB wrote:......It seems I could make the  trans mount  lower to get the 4* down to a 2 or so........

If you are shooting for a static/at rest +2.00* slip yoke & -2.00* pinion "in phase" (equal-but-opposing) "street-highway/street-strip" type driveline operating angle profile (and not the 100% "drag only" profile already mentioned above) you are fairly close now.

Just remember that if you drop the tailshaft height to go from the current slip yoke U-joint operating angle of +4.00* (to get down to +2.00*), that action should also reduce the current rear pinion U-joint operating angle below it's current -2.00* (a small amount) if you don't also readjust the pinion angle to account for this.

Lot of work but you will love the struts when they are done. Struts were the best thing we did to my car a few years ago. They didn't make a kit for my car so we made our own. Car is more consistent and my reaction times were much improved. Make sure you install adjustable travel limiters while you are at it.

512Fairlane wrote:Lot of work but you will love the struts when they are done.  Struts were the best thing we did to my car a few years ago.  They didn't make a kit for my car so we made our own. Car is more consistent and my reaction times were much improved.  Make sure you install adjustable travel limiters while you are at it.

I think I've read through your build at least twice on photobucket. Lots of good info there also.

70FB wrote:

richter69 wrote:mine was goofy like that, when I did the front half i let the driveline geometry dictate where the motor went, i just made the rack and lower control arms work around everything else.

Did you make the kmember yourself? This one sits about 3-4 inches below the frame.

made my own, crossmember holds the rack, it all is in front of the pan.

was told a guy that runs at our local track has this set up on his coupe ...he is running a 445 sbf and has the front end of his car sitting nice and low and chassis is working very good since the change.

5pointslow wrote:was told a guy that runs at our local track has this set up on his coupe ...he is running a 445 sbf and has the front end of his car sitting nice and low and chassis is working very good since the change.

Good, I hope to find out in a couple of weeks.

anything new ?

Mostly just been cutting grinding,fitting. We should be welding up the motorplate and midplate brackets tonight. I picked up my forward bars and other tubing Friday night. Its all cut and ready to get welded in place this week. I should have some more pictures in a day or two.

 

I got a few more things done here. I had a buddy that works for the state that is a "certified" welder. Anyway he offered to weld it all up for nothing. I think I could have done better but its still good. The engine plate will sit between the shock tower tubes and the forward bars with just enough room to pull the engine forward to get it off the trans. I still have to drop the engine in and tie the motorplate to the forward bars and weld my brackets to the frame. We put some plate on top of the frame and welded the forward bars and shock tower braces to it so it should distribute the load some. It should also keep the frame metal from getting brittle from the welding heat. I still have to tie a few more things together and then I can start cleanup,paint and assembly. Headers,midmount brackets,engine plate mounts,steering shaft and some other stuff still left. Pictures on the next post.