Burning Alcohol

BigSmut79 March 29th 2014, 7:05 pm

Say I was running a bigger sized motor like a 557 or 598 and running it on alcohol with mechanical injection and such, it would be in a bog truck so running bout 200-300' pit. On average how many gallons of alcohol would it burn in a run? Just trying to get an idea from people with prior experience. C12 ain't so cheap, so looking to see what I have to expect.

dfree383 March 29th 2014, 8:10 pm

How much c12 you burning now? And how much you plan on spending on an injection setup?

BigSmut79 March 29th 2014, 8:41 pm

This is all gonna be new to me, gonna try running something cooler burning then pump gas. I plan on setting up a TFS tunnel ram with a bug or bird catcher. Gonna probably have the tunnel ram sent to Koehler Injection or some other specialist and have it set up right. Just looking for a rough estimate to how fast alcohol burns in a 2-300 foot run.

powerstrokeace March 29th 2014, 8:45 pm

2.5 gallons
Ace

dfree383 March 29th 2014, 8:45 pm

I would guesstimate 40% more than the gas. But it will have more mainaintence than gas.

BigSmut79 March 29th 2014, 8:49 pm

Gotta pay to play with the big boys I guess haha.

69F100 March 29th 2014, 8:50 pm

I burn alky but with a carb I will burn 2 1\2 gal a run that about 1 3\4 mile round trip from pit and back to pit after the run. My buddy has a tolit on his and he only burns about 1\2 what mine burns if that helps you. Just remember tbey are a lot more maintenance to do before you park it after you finish for the weekend.

richter69 March 29th 2014, 8:54 pm

Burn more driving it to and back to the pit, warming it etc. a gas primer plus w pumpgas is your friend, so are block heaters etc

Wheelie58 March 29th 2014, 8:55 pm

Based on the fuel consumption of my 605 and 618 having 2...and 3 throttle bodies on the same manifold that you mentioned, you should plan on 2 gallons per run.
Here are the variables:
Methods used for warm up and idle mixture calibration. That is the big one.
How far you drive to the starting line from the staging area.
How far is the return road.
The actual run, on a properly tuned 1100 hp engine will take less than a gallon.
It's getting warmed up, staged and driving back that wastes a lot.
There are gas primer systems to help start, warm up and even drive around the pits.

My full bodied door car (drag) takes 2.5 to 3 gallons for the whole process, depending on the track layout.
That includes a burnout.
I hope this helps.
Keith

cool40 March 29th 2014, 9:05 pm

All these guys are correct. I burn more warming up than a pass down the track but only warm up once.

David Cole March 29th 2014, 9:06 pm

To expand on what has been said. My 598 is right at 1100 hp. I run a Ron's system. Terminator. Round trip in my car trailer to trailer uses just under 1 gallon of methanol and 1 pint of 93 oct pump gas. I have one the the Primer Plus gas systems. I warm up, drive to staging and back up the return road on pump gas. It's only on alky from the head of staging, the pass and turn off to the return road. We race 1/8 mile on a 1/4 mile track. Trailer to trailer is about 1 mile I guesstimate.

BigSmut79 March 30th 2014, 5:20 pm

What exactly is a fuel primier and how does it work? Also would a tunnel ram with an injection hat burn around the same as the Ron's flying toilet setup?

Curt March 30th 2014, 5:55 pm

BigSmut79 wrote:What exactly is a fuel primier and how does it work? Also would a tunnel ram with an injection hat burn around the same as the Ron's flying toilet setup?

A primer plus is like an adjustable nitrous plate that allows you to start, idle and warm up on gas. It has a small separate fuel pump and tank. The engine will dictate how much fuel is needed, not the induction system.

Burning Alcohol 20a

Curt March 30th 2014, 5:58 pm

If you look under the throttle bodies, you can see two plates with fuel hoses running to spray bars.

Burning Alcohol Newbuild20

BigSmut79 March 30th 2014, 9:33 pm

So where that is set up like a plate would it work with an injection hat or?

David Cole March 30th 2014, 11:30 pm

BigSmut79 wrote:So where that is set up like a plate would it work with an injection hat or?

The #1 Ron's distributor, James Monroe, has a Primer Plus setup for a hat style injection.

http://www.killerrons.com/primer.cfm

Not cheap, but when you figure it will save you about $5 in fuel costs every pass you make it doesn't take long to pay for itself.

Curt March 31st 2014, 12:06 am

David Cole wrote:
BigSmut79 wrote:So where that is set up like a plate would it work with an injection hat or?

The #1 Ron's distributor, James Monroe, has a Primer Plus setup for a hat style injection.

http://www.killerrons.com/primer.cfm

Not cheap, but when you figure it will save you about $5 in fuel costs every pass you make it doesn't take long to pay for itself.

5pointslow March 31st 2014, 6:36 am

no to get off topic

but M1 locally to me is 7.50 a gallon if you burn 2-3 gallons in the driving to lanes , burnout ,run and return .
isnt this being in the same boat or close to racing gas ?

most big single carbs on 500 plus ci engine id assume would still use 1-1.5 gallons per the same proccess as above ?

seems it would come down to preference i maybe wrong , plus the maint of alky . If you go on killer rons they swear its cut and dry andf maint isnt that bad .

Wheelie58 March 31st 2014, 10:22 am

5pointslow wrote:no to get off topic

but M1 locally to me is 7.50 a gallon if you burn 2-3 gallons in the driving to lanes , burnout ,run and return .
isnt this being in the same boat or close to racing gas ?

most big single carbs on 500 plus ci engine id assume would still use 1-1.5 gallons per the same proccess as above ?

seems it would come down to preference i maybe wrong , plus the maint of alky . If you go on killer rons they swear its cut and dry andf maint isnt that bad .

That price for M1 is marked up quite a bit.
I can get it for way under $200 per 55 gal drum...single drum price.
Might check that out...plus you should be able to buy industrial methanol (runs exactly the same) for even less.
Of course...each part of the country may vary.

David Cole March 31st 2014, 10:24 am

5pointslow wrote:no to get off topic

but M1 locally to me is 7.50 a gallon i

They are raping guys at that price. M1 here is $195 for a 54 gal drum. $3.61/gal. I can get VP Clear for $175. That's M1 in a one time prior use drum. Industrial alky from an oil supply company is $155 drum. 2.87/gal I ran the industrial for years with no problems. Just went to VP since a dealer is now less than 3 miles away. The industrial supplier is is 40 miles.

I do not know of this "high maint" that I hear gasoline guys speak of. I do nothing extra. A PROPERLY set up system will not milk the oil. I change it about every 50 passes due to guilt. Looks just like oil. I leave fuel in the un anodized aluminum fuel cell for weeks at a time. Drain it for the winter, that's all. I do give the injection lines, nozzles, and barrel valve a shot of compressed air and a squirt of WD40 once a year when I winterize it. Fuel pump gets the same plus filled with oil to keep the seals from drying out.

Wheelie58 March 31st 2014, 10:30 am

David Cole wrote:
5pointslow wrote:no to get off topic

but M1 locally to me is 7.50 a gallon i

They are raping guys at that price. M1 here is $195 for a 54 gal drum. $3.61/gal. I can get VP Clear for $175. That's M1 in a one time prior use drum. Industrial alky from an oil supply company is $155 drum. 2.87/gal I ran the industrial for years with no problems. Just went to VP since a dealer is now less than 3 miles away. The industrial supplier is is 40 miles.

I do not know of this "high maint" that I hear gasoline guys speak of. I do nothing extra. A PROPERLY set up system will not milk the oil. I change it about every 50 passes due to guilt. Looks just like oil. I leave fuel in the un anodized aluminum fuel cell for weeks at a time. Drain it for the winter, that's all. I do give the injection lines, nozzles, and barrel valve a shot of compressed air and a squirt of WD40 once a year when I winterize it. Fuel pump gets the same plus filled with oil to keep the seals from drying out.

To save typing the same thing...
My experience mirrors David's...prices and all.

5pointslow March 31st 2014, 10:56 am

http://www.newenglanddragway.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=44&Itemid=200

prices at New england Dragway

cool40 March 31st 2014, 2:03 pm

5pointslow wrote:http://www.newenglanddragway.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=44&Itemid=200

prices at New england Dragway

most tracks are high on fuel.I got some c16 last year for $45 a can in north AL.

Wheelie58 March 31st 2014, 2:41 pm

Yeah
It's like buying beer at a convenience store.

BigSmut79 March 31st 2014, 6:43 pm

I plan on running the TFS tunnel ram and they don't offer an adapter plate to mount an injection hat on that application unless you have a sheet metal one made, with that Killer Rons fuel primer for a hat set up would that work as the adapter plate? Or would the fuel primer have to set on top of a sheet metal adapter plate?

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