557 A460 heads

Well guy's here go's
Dove-a block filled to the bottom of the pump holes .080
4.5 stroke 4340 forged crank
6:80 h-beam rods
Diamond dome 14cc pistons (14:1)
Ford Motorsports A460 heads worked over buy some guy named Oakley 2.35/1.88 jesel shaft system Pac springs
Lem Evans Magic  grind cam and Motorsports double pined gear
ATI Balancer
Kaase Oil Pump
Old Style intake lightly port matched and smooth out on the inside
8896 (1050) holley old school stuff here no changeable bleeds
MSD 7AL3 with the MSD 8580 large cap dist and wires


were hoping to test this motor this coming Friday night before our 8/9/14 super comp race. we decided to install this motor after we made a semi final appearance at the Mile High National and been fighting that motor since the Mile High's last year.

ACE

Carbs a lil small,but should be fun. Good luck.   

bbf-falcon wrote:Carbs a lil small,but should be fun. Good luck.   

Here in the mile high city a smaller carb means Consistency. We need air speed to make up the lack of air. I would not be a posed to putting on a bigger car if we ran the car all out but we mainly throttle stop race .

Ace

  Something I know NOTHING about.  

Ok so Saturday is a few hours a way and we are hoping for some good results. only problem is we never had the option to test this and we only get 2 runs before we race. something that pretty hard to do for throttle stop racing. and i like to make a few easy runs just to sort things out at first...
Didn't even get to heat cylces the new down swept 2 1/2to 2 3/8- 4.5 collestors
Ace

Dang Ace that's cutting it close for trying to dial it in, do you have Friday night drags there? We have them here in Pueblo.

68formalGT wrote:Dang Ace that's cutting it close for trying to dial it in, do you have Friday night drags there? We have them here in Pueblo.

They do but this Friday night is a club clash deal and it pretty much street cars. my daughter works the stagging lanes and asked Larry if it was possible and he said no!

Ace

Things are not going well!! New motor same results! Something is kicking our asses!!!! Trying a throttle stop APD carb for the second time run. And going to disconnect the tack wire from the msd 7al3 box.
Oh and the damn rain don't help!! Every race this year it's rained!



Ace

How about taking it off the stop. Will it run flat out? Would like to know times without it? Good luck and I hope the weather gets better!! I hate to spend all day in and out of the trailer because of rain. Nice car!!

Sorry but thats not going to help. The car is 3-4 MPH slow on the stop from what it use to run and .20 in the 60ft.

Ace

We have had more rain then what we've had in the last few years. Have you had a chance to sort through some things, ignition box, coil.

This is starting to sound like a problem my buddy stuggled with last year.  The car was a sled, really falling on its face downtrack.  We chased down every detail on the car, from compression to fuel system to ignition boxes to swapping carbs....same converter, trans, gears, etc., the car was simply a pig.  Then we yanked the throttle stop out from under the carb and ran without it. The thing was scary fast.  The throttle stop itself wasn't functioning correctly, no matter how we used it.  Even when turned off, it wouldn't let the car run. He has a new one and the car goes like stink.  Maybe?....... 

It's funny no matter what we try it has no affect what so ever. The carb didn't work because it was set up for a forward facing and ours is rear. As soon as it launched I died.
We have te throttle turn on instantly and 1 second to open just to not blow the tires away. Who's stop and was it a linkage or under carb?
Ace

It was an under carb deal. Not sure on the brand. I'll call him and find out. Stand by.

I just talked with him. His stop was a Dedenbear. And I know you've been through all linkage and possible interference issues. Jerry did mention that he had to correct an interference issue between the throttle stop linkage and the accelerator pump lever at WOT. I doubt that's your trouble, though. If it was mine, I'd have to pull it off the car and run it, just to satisfy myself that the stop itself was not the problem. Then...if that yields no help...

He reminded of something I told him back then...Think long and hard while looking at the car. SOMETHING about that car is different from when it ran so well. What changes, however small, may have been made to that car since it last ran really well? In Jerry's case, it was the stop. In your case, maybe not... but it'll be simple to rule it out.

tis car ran like a rape ape juy 4th 2013. we pulled the converter out to fix a leak. nothing else done.... put it back in showed up for the 2013 Mile Highs and the car was slow from the very first pass. we rarely run this off the stop so i have no idea what that will fix. this car was running 9.50's with 1.42-1.45- 60 ft times and 3 seconds in the stop and we are now down to 1.65 60fts and only been running 1.5-1.6 in the timer and lost 3-4 MPH. so here what we have tried
converter
had repaired leaking converter send back and double checked over the winter and put back in at the beginning of this year
pulled the carb apart and cleaned all the circuits but never pulled the needles and seats?
checked the fuel flow (MagnaFuel 300 set at 6lbs and flows like a fire hose)
new tires
went through the trans. we lost a fitting in the shut down area and did this as a precaution (first race this year in May)
rebuilt the heads as we had 60% leakage on #1 intake installed new spring installed pressure down 50 lbs (just before this years Mile Highs)
this week end week end ran a brand new motor and a known good new msd and new wires
tach has been jumping around so we disconnected the leads to the 7AL3 and the Tach signal to the Dedenbear timer as well

I have no interference problem with linkage and have even check it over while we had the carb off this weekend as well.

Ace (LOST IN SPACE NOW)

Well it's pretty well got me stumped, since you've fixed, freshened or replaced pretty much everything that makes it go.  That's why I keep looking at stuff that's intended to make it SLOW.  When all attempts at diagnostics fail, I start deliberately changing simple things one at a time.  I'd still run it with the t-stop in the trailer, just to satisfy myself so I could think in another direction.  And I'd be damned if I'd replace the car and forget it.  That thing would bother me forever.  That's me, tho...........

who repaired the converter? if thats all you changed i'd look at it..........

cool40 wrote:who repaired the converter? if thats all you changed i'd look at it..........

the converter that worked so well was a converted bolt together buy Neal Chance and it has always had a leak at some point or another. well when we pulled it out when it was performing so well was because of a leak. my local guy unbolted it and cleaned it out to pressure test it and find the source of the leak. the repair was made inside the front cover. once we ran the converter (2013 Mile Highs) and found it was slow we talked and he built me one as we talked for 2 years about him building me one. So after the the Mile highs i installed one of his and picked up a 1/4 of a second on the timer but still a 157.00 MPH (not the 160MPH we were running. I also just found out he built it spragless)) . So after the season was over I sent the Neal Chance back to him and asked that it be looked over and converted back to a weld up as i had it with leaks. So this year we started out with that converter and it still in the car. I wonder if the sprag is slipping?

Ace

UPDATE: Been talking with my neighbor and i asked about putting a sprag back in his converter that has 18-19 runs on it. So i dropped it off Monday and Tuesday morning he called and said i had laid over the fins in the converter.    So i was thinking it was worse than what he said but he fixed it and installed a sprag and brought it over tonight and even the half that was damaged to show me and I'll be Damned. He was telling me the truth. I scratched the converter on purpose just to see what I get back and it had the marks i left on it (the damaged part) now this was the pump side that goes in the trans first. He said his vender (I think its Trans Specialties) wants it back to see what happened. he only charged me for the sprag so I'm pretty happy right now. Just need to get it in the car and test it out


Ace

   

powerstrokeace wrote:UPDATE: Been talking with my neighbor and i asked about putting a sprag back in his converter that has 18-19 runs on it. So i dropped it off Monday and Tuesday morning he called and said i had laid over the fins in the converter.    So i was thinking it was worse than what he said but he fixed it and installed a sprag and brought it over tonight and even the half that was damaged to show me and I'll be Damned. He was telling me the truth. I scratched the converter on purpose just to see what I get back and it had the marks i left on it (the damaged part) now this was the pump side that goes in the trans first. He said his vender (I think its Trans Specialties) wants it back to see what happened. he only charged me for the sprag so I'm pretty happy right now. Just need to get it in the car and test it out


Ace

Hope that sorts things out for you.

update

Well after getting the converter loosened up from 5800 to 6200 it no longer pulls the engine down at the launch. We discovered this watching the go pro videos. We don't have and data recorders. But we (I) feel that this motor has way to much cam for the elevation. This motor has better flow numbers on te heads by 20-30 cfm over the motor we started out with last year that suddenly lost HP!
Starting last year we purchased a used motor from a friend and had no all out runs till after we started having issues during our mile high race. After that we ran a few bracket races with a best ET of 8.20 @ 163 plus we even tried a few thing after that and the beginning of this year up till after the mile high race this year. I even pulled the heads days before this event and completed a valve job due to and intake valve leaking bad on #1. But after we put the heads back on warmed the motor up and re leaked down that same cylinder with poor ring seal. We went from 60% to 30% and just blowing past the rings so I'm in the process this week tearing down the motor and have a ring company that would like me to send them the ring for them to evaluate them. I was told to get a good 400 Grit finish from the machine shop and then take a 320 grit ball hone and make a 8-10 passes using that be for reassembley. This motor has bone stock unported TFS a460's and very small in my opinion cam by Cam Research ( I can't comment on this)and has ran faster than our results of this current build
This current build has only ran a best of 8.43@ 159 and change.same carb. Same throttle stop with no improvements. Again from my stand point I feel the size of motor and the fined altitude we have a missed matched cam. I even advance the cam 2 degrees with no change in ET. So I will leave this combo along for the Tim and consult with former resident of Colorado that works at Comp Cams and go over all the details
So with that said the used motor is getting a fresh ring and bearings and no changes we will leave this build alone for the winter while we are working on a HUGE (632) deal for next year.
Ace

powerstrokeace wrote:Well after getting the converter loosened up from 5800 to 6200 it no longer pulls the engine down at the launch. We discovered this watching the go pro videos. We don't have and data recorders. But we (I) feel that this motor has way to much cam for the elevation. This motor has better flow numbers on te heads by 20-30 cfm over the motor we started out with last year that suddenly lost HP!
Starting last year we purchased a used motor from a friend and had no all out runs till after we started having issues during our mile high race. After that we ran a few bracket races with a best ET of 8.20 @ 163 plus we even tried a few thing after that and the beginning of this year up till after the mile high race this year. I even pulled the heads days before this event and completed a valve job due to and intake valve leaking bad on #1. But after we put the heads back on warmed the motor up and re leaked down that same cylinder with poor ring seal. We went from 60% to 30% and just blowing past the rings so I'm in the process this week tearing down the motor and have a ring company that would like me to send them the ring for them to evaluate them. I was told to get a good 400 Grit finish from the machine shop and then take a 320 grit ball hone and make a 8-10 passes using that be for reassembley. This motor has bone stock unported TFS a460's and very small in my opinion cam by Cam Research ( I can't comment on this)and has ran faster than our results of this current build
This current build has only ran a best of 8.43@ 159 and change.same carb. Same throttle stop with no improvements. Again from my stand point I feel the size of motor and the fined altitude we have a missed matched cam. I even advance the cam 2 degrees with no change in ET. So I will leave this combo along for the Tim and consult with former resident of Colorado that works at Comp Cams and go over all the details
So with that said the used motor is getting a fresh ring and bearings and no changes we will leave this build alone for the winter while we are working on a HUGE (632) deal for next year.
Ace

If you want to share the cam specs I'm sure I can give you a lash change to get it going in the right direction.