Re: High Rpm Pump gas 456ci P51 combo..advice please

dfree383 April 9th 2016, 9:10 pm

nascar429 wrote:
supervel45 wrote:https://www.429-460.com/t24380-429-steel-truck-crankshaft

I would offset grind one these, maybe have it lightened also
, get a good four bolt block, factory or FRPP, good rods with light forged pistons, a big cam mechanical flat tapped or mechanical roller, a ported Victor intake, or maybe a Mafia, a Holley Dominator, Crower SS rockers and a stud girdle and be pretty content.

Some good points he has found a factory steel 429 crank.. and plans to leave it stock stroke, A460 4.500 bore, 6.605 Carrillo rods and lightened pistons when ordered.
WW shaft rockers, crower bushed lifters, custom solid roller, roughly around 260 270-ish Intake @ .050" 700-750 lift max.. (it is at dual purpose street/strip car) so can't go to nuts..

Has a Wilson ported Victor 4150..also looking into converting to Dominator, has a Domi Mafia to possibly try as well on the dyno.. new stall converter will be around 4500-5000..

Yes it is small cubes but will see High rpm 7500+ ..what did the Old Hotrodders do 40 years ago before stroker Cranks were easily available..

Remember theirs a reason way cars are a lot faster nowdays.........

supervel45 April 9th 2016, 9:29 pm

They had a few strokers around back in the day too. The 540 was around at least in the early 90's and Project 514 was running after market Hemi rods in 1986.

Nothing real new.

nascar429 April 9th 2016, 11:04 pm

dfree383 wrote:
nascar429 wrote:
supervel45 wrote:https://www.429-460.com/t24380-429-steel-truck-crankshaft

I would offset grind one these, maybe have it lightened also
, get a good four bolt block, factory or FRPP, good rods with light forged pistons, a big cam mechanical flat tapped or mechanical roller, a ported Victor intake, or maybe a Mafia, a Holley Dominator, Crower SS rockers and a stud girdle and be pretty content.

Some good points he has found a factory steel 429 crank.. and plans to leave it stock stroke, A460 4.500 bore, 6.605 Carrillo rods and lightened pistons when ordered.
WW shaft rockers, crower bushed lifters, custom solid roller, roughly around 260 270-ish Intake @ .050" 700-750 lift max.. (it is at dual purpose street/strip car) so can't go to nuts..

Has a Wilson ported Victor 4150..also looking into converting to Dominator, has a Domi Mafia to possibly try as well on the dyno.. new stall converter will be around 4500-5000..

Yes it is small cubes but will see High rpm 7500+ ..what did the Old Hotrodders do 40 years ago before stroker Cranks were easily available..

Remember theirs a reason way cars are a lot faster nowdays.........

Good point Dave.. probably should of clarified his Future goals.. he has run 10.72 at 131 with the current mild 10 to 1 comp, crane F246 solid, cleaned up A429 heads 434ci and 200 NOS ...

Ultimately he would like to be at real low 10's and hopefully one day run a high 9.. with the new P51 456ci and 300hp of NOS combo..

DGS April 10th 2016, 12:23 pm

supervel45 wrote:They had a few strokers around back in the day too. The 540 was around at least in the early 90's and Project 514 was running after market Hemi rods in 1986.

Nothing real new.

Mike Hinson was building 604 ci 460 motors in the late 70's, primarily for the tractor pulling crowd. Boss blocks bored to 4.500 with 4.750 cranks. Have the magazine article in a 1978 Popular Hot rodding mag. Same issue had a feature on Tom McTernan running a 460 in a 69 stang running 9.20's at 157 with a Nash Top Loader.

dfree383 April 10th 2016, 12:29 pm

He probably get it spraying the current motor with 300...... Why build another little engine?!?!?

Sounds like somebody just wants to waste money and is stuck in the 70's and 80's?????

My point is if your going to spend all that money put the bitch in the low 9's not 10's for the same money and less or no NO2.....

dfree383 April 10th 2016, 12:33 pm

DGS wrote:
supervel45 wrote:They had a few strokers around back in the day too. The 540 was around at least in the early 90's and Project 514 was running after market Hemi rods in 1986.

Nothing real new.

Mike Hinson was building 604 ci 460 motors in the late 70's, primarily for the tractor pulling crowd. Boss blocks bored to 4.500 with 4.750 cranks. Have the magazine article in a 1978 Popular Hot rodding mag. Same issue had a feature on Tom McTernan running a 460 in a 69 stang running 9.20's at 157 with a Nash Top Loader.

They where expensive and exotic back then and where making knowhere near the power the similar stuff is today. 632's are run of the mill today and relatively inexpensive to build.

whitefield April 10th 2016, 1:32 pm

http://rehermorrison.com/tech-talk-53-big-bore-or-long-stroke-which-is-better/

Here is a good read ! study

supervel45 April 10th 2016, 1:54 pm

dfree383 wrote:
DGS wrote:
supervel45 wrote:They had a few strokers around back in the day too. The 540 was around at least in the early 90's and Project 514 was running after market Hemi rods in 1986.

Nothing real new.

Mike Hinson was building 604 ci 460 motors in the late 70's, primarily for the tractor pulling crowd. Boss blocks bored to 4.500 with 4.750 cranks. Have the magazine article in a 1978 Popular Hot rodding mag. Same issue had a feature on Tom McTernan running a 460 in a 69 stang running 9.20's at 157 with a Nash Top Loader.

They where expensive and exotic back then and where making knowhere near the power the similar stuff is today. 632's are run of the mill today and relatively inexpensive to build.

I got nothing in particular against the big strokers but, some people like doing it with less cubes just for the hell of it, or like you say stuck in the 70's and 80's and want to do it the way most people did back then to a certain extent. Gas mileage may not be a factor to many people with deals like this but, I have a feeling a 429 might get better mileage then a 572, and don't mind spraying the difference when needed.

dfree383 April 10th 2016, 2:31 pm

whitefield wrote:http://rehermorrison.com/tech-talk-53-big-bore-or-long-stroke-which-is-better/

Here is a good read !

I want both big bore and long stroke.

I'm greedy like that!

whitefield April 10th 2016, 4:29 pm

dfree383 wrote:
whitefield wrote:http://rehermorrison.com/tech-talk-53-big-bore-or-long-stroke-which-is-better/

Here is a good read !

I want both big bore and long stroke.

I'm greedy like that!

Yeah that's what she said Tool

supervel45 April 10th 2016, 5:16 pm

Some of them like it short and fast, at least I've heard but, a long stroke and big bore wins hands down in that department.

whitefield April 10th 2016, 6:06 pm

Another good read ! http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/pro-stock-engines-whats-the-secret-to-those-big-power-numbers/

nascar429 April 22nd 2016, 5:45 am

whitefield wrote:Another good read ! http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/pro-stock-engines-whats-the-secret-to-those-big-power-numbers/

Some great reading on those links Whitefield thanks.

You guys have any advice or experience on valve spring setup to turn 7500 7700rpm..? he has the P51 steel valves around 150g, Titanium retainers I'm thinking he will need 700+lbs open to turn that RPM.
And of course a big duration cam probably 275+ @ .050 intake.

supervel45 April 22nd 2016, 7:03 am

nascar429 wrote:
whitefield wrote:Another good read ! http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/pro-stock-engines-whats-the-secret-to-those-big-power-numbers/

Some great reading on those links Whitefield thanks.

You guys have any advice or experience on valve spring setup to turn 7500 7700rpm..? he has the P51 steel valves around 150g, Titanium retainers I'm thinking he will need 700+lbs open to turn that RPM.
And of course a big duration cam probably 275+ @ .050 intake.

supervel45 April 22nd 2016, 7:08 am

nascar429 wrote:
whitefield wrote:Another good read ! http://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/pro-stock-engines-whats-the-secret-to-those-big-power-numbers/

Some great reading on those links Whitefield thanks.

You guys have any advice or experience on valve spring setup to turn 7500 7700rpm..? he has the P51 steel valves around 150g, Titanium retainers I'm thinking he will need 700+lbs open to turn that RPM.
And of course a big duration cam probably 275+ @ .050 intake.

I think your in the ballpark on the cam and close on the springs too, depending on the weight of the other valvetrain components. If they are heavy you might need more spring pressure? The guys that used to run BBC rollers back in the day liked the Crane R274 which was 274 at .050" .714" lift or so cam and about 750lbs on their springs in 468's and twisted them to those RPM's or close until the junk blew up.

rmcomprandy April 22nd 2016, 10:08 am

nascar429 wrote:Hi All..

A good friend of mine is planning a new build for his True street/strip car..
He prefers rev's over "brutal torque" so he doesn't want a real big inch engine, will be using a 429 steel truck crank, Thanks to Paul Kane..

With the current 434ci 10 to 1 pump gas, crane F246 solid, cleaned up A429 heads + 200 NOS.. it has gone 10.72 at 131
Ultimately he would like to be at real low 10's and hopefully one day run a high 9..with the new P51 456ci + 300hp of NOS combo..

3950lbs with him in it.
3.590 x 4.500 bore.. 456ci
4.11 rear gears.
28x 10.5 tyres.
C6.. 3800 stall now, 4500+ converter what ever it needs for new combo..
2.5" exhaust with the old ford racing XR-1 turbo racing mufflers.
4 into 1 tuned length pipes 2" primary 34" long 3.5" collector.
A460 block
Stock complete P51"s heads to suit solid roller..
Custom solid roller cam purchased from one of the cam experts on this forum.
fully ported Wilson victor 4150..
w&w shaft rockers.
C&S Aerosol billet carb 900cfm wet flow, supposedly flows over 1000cfm.
4.500 bore around 11 to 1 comp pistons .. to run on 93-94 octane.

He would like to make (if possible) 650-700 HP between 7200 to 7400rpm and shift around 7500 to 7700rpm.
250 shot of Nos..

Things that worry me the Exhaust, and possibly The Victor Manifold.. would it need some "Radical reworking" and or a Domi Base to make power up that high ?

any (Advice or opinions) on the "Good Bad and the Ugly" of this combo it would be greatly appreciated..

Hi horsepower, hi RPM, short stroke engines make great race engines where the trans has a lot of gear speeds however, don't make very good street / strip engines and are a real pain to just drive around and maintain; I'll just leave it at that.

His choice ... he will eventually find this out for himself.

supervel45 April 22nd 2016, 10:15 am

Those 468 BBC's were constantly breaking roller lifters on the street also and probably a few valves too.

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