Cap walk problems

Guys, I've got a D9TE block, no fill, with ARP main studs. I've been seeing some cap walk, and these pics are after two seasons of a 200 shot on a 4.5" cast SCAT crank:







The bearings look great, but this cap walk has me nervous.

I'm getting a 4.5" forged crank from Adney this winter and I was wondering if the extra rigidity of the forged crank would help a little here.

Is there any other solution other than going with a 4 bolt cap setup?

Greg

man you need to put on 3 main girdles and weld the main caps in place that way you can fix it....

really Greg I think if you install a set of 4 bolt main caps or flat strap it it should help out....


Randy

Approx HP? What does your tune look like? I dont believe that the crank will help much, but I could be wrong. Thats kind of like having the supports failing on a bridge and pouring more concrete on the road surface. Sure its more rigid, but thats not the problem. You could try a girdle to try to better distribute the load. You could fill the block and re hone it to try to add some strength, or do the splayed cap deal. Hope this helps.

I'm guessing 850-900 HP on the spray. 27-30 degrees timing. Shift at 6200-6500, thru the traps at 6200 or so.

We got lean on one tune, and got some specs on the plugs for one pass. It's been a conservative tune ever since, and the plugs look great after every pass.

I'm not trying to be a cheapskate, but this forged crank is putting a major pinch on my wallet. I also would like to not have a bunch of $$$ into this stock block, because I plan to upgrade the block after another season.

Greg

Put the good crank in it, a little anti sieze between the caps and block, start saving for an aftermarket IMO.

Greg_P wrote:I'm guessing 850-900 HP on the spray. 27-30 degrees timing. Shift at 6200-6500, thru the traps at 6200 or so.

We got lean on one tune, and got some specs on the plugs for one pass. It's been a conservative tune ever since, and the plugs look great after every pass.

I'm not trying to be a cheapskate, but this forged crank is putting a major pinch on my wallet. I also would like to not have a bunch of $$$ into this stock block, because I plan to upgrade the block after another season.

Greg

I dont know if I would change the crank. If it took 2 seasons I would consider freshening it and rolling the dice. Im in the same boat. Im building an Ablock motor and just having fun with the stock stuff, but I know its on borrowed time. Have you considered changing the gear and lowering RPM a tad. I know you will lose some ET, but with a conservative tune and slightly lower RPM it may live a little longer. I know with my combo and the amount of spray i run short shifting doesnt really effect my ET much.

Barney wrote: You could fill the block and re hone it to try to add some strength, or do the splayed cap deal. Hope this helps.

I would not suggest block filling and trying to just get away with honing it. The only way I would attempt the block fill deal is if I were planning to bore the block afterwards and have the line bore checked. Grouting even to the water pump holes tends to distort a block a little more than you think, and could cause some serious premature failure in other places. JMO.

Travis

Chuck's block looked like that several years ago. That was with 2 bolts on the mains. Got some studs, had the block align honed and ran the piss out of it. That was a 472ci engine. Now it's a 492ci engine.

I think the larger crank and spray are contributing to your cap walk. Until you can get the A-Block together, just get the block align honed again and drive it like you stole it

richter69 wrote:Put the good crank in it, a little anti sieze between the caps and block, start saving for an aftermarket IMO.

Jon, does the anti sieze just allow the caps to do what they are gonna do with out the metal transfer?

Bill

TravisRice wrote:

Barney wrote: You could fill the block and re hone it to try to add some strength, or do the splayed cap deal. Hope this helps.

I would not suggest block filling and trying to just get away with honing it. The only way I would attempt the block fill deal is if I were planning to bore the block afterwards and have the line bore checked. Grouting even to the water pump holes tends to distort a block a little more than you think, and could cause some serious premature failure in other places. JMO.

Travis

I guess I assumed he would be checking line bore, and by honing I also assumed he would have a torque plate on it for the block fill and hone it w/ the torque plate in place, I should have elaborated sorry for the misinformation.

The walk on a two bolt deal with a big stroke and big power is something you live with untill you can do a four bolt conversion or race block i.m.o. If it were mine I wouldn't throw much money at it.....save it for one of the four bolt options .

Thanks for the info, guys, this place is truly where a person goes to get the "real deal" info on these motors.

Greg

My D1 block had a fill to the water pump, two bolt (studed) with a girdle. It was only making 720 hp.
I had some fuel delivery problems at the first meeting, so it was detonating, but mine did look like that.
The two bolt deal always worried me so I just figured it was time to upgarde to "A460" block.
Save your money for a 4 bolt conversion or a race block.
Cheers Colin.

You absolutely have some cap walk there. Maybe heres a chance to try something. Theres alot of opposing opinions on the 2 forums about the effectiveness of main girdles. I have a positive opinion having used one on a blown 460 with a d1 block with no cap walk in 6 years of street/strip use. So heres the deal: If your willing to try one I will send you a DSS girdle (retail $249.) for free, you try it and report back to the forum at a later date with the results. I bought it off the forum but it came without the studs, so you will need to purchase those. It will clear your 4.5 crank , it was in another 545 that was running in the 10 sec range. I'm confidant this will help. Just to be fair I am going to splayed caps and a girdle on my new 545, but I'm doing this motor slowly so I'm spending more money on more details than my last motor, but it will still be on a budget, but cash outlayed a little at a time as my current motor is still very healthy. If you decide to take me up on this send me an address and I will ship you the part free and insured. You can ask around I've handed out lots of parts around here. I would take before and after pictures of the block so it can be determined if there are any "NEW" cap walk marks later after using the girdle. This will give us all at least 1 more unbiased opinion about girdles because its your motor not mine. Whatever you choose good luck with your engine, we are all here to see everyone succeed and have their motors stay together, but like family we often disagree on how just to do that. I have no doubt that the A460 block and others are better, but I think a factory block for the budget racer can be built to handle some pretty impressive power AND hang together reliably. Greg blown473 "Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds!" EINSTEIN

That's a heck of a nice offer, but I do not think I have room to put a girdle on this engine due to oil pan issues.

Thats ok, just wanted to offer some help. You are putting a pretty big hit of nitrous thru that motor, at the very least I would try the splayed caps, on a budget you can buy "cat" brand off e-bay for $70. I've seen some, they actually are a decent cap. A few guys on the forum are using them instead of the $300. brand. Good luck! Greg blown473

Compared to Nicplaus Copernius.....Einstein was an idiot .

Must be why the Haldron collider in Geneva is close to finding "HIGGS BOSOM" and proving Einsteins "string energy" theory. Thats if you understand physics.1.16 TRILLION VOLTS @ near speed of light. Remember we would probably be living under a german or nippon flag if Einstein hadn't wrote that letter to FDR. Sounds like a pretty smart guy to me. But I try to compliment people on this forum not knock them.

"But I try to compliment people on this forum not knock them."
Sorry I did not know that Einstein was on the the forum...at any rate... I DID Not say Einstein was an outright idiot.....just compared to Copernius .

If the forged crank is already on the way then go for the align hone and splayed 4 bolts, if not still go for the align hone and consider staging the No2 so that the hit off the line doesnt shock your bottom end so hard. New studs with wider nuts would also hold the caps down a tad more as well.

The cast crank is at the machine shop getting checked out for cracks....... so whoever the next owner is will feel better about buying it.

I'm pretty set on the forged crank, because there's no way that cast crank will let me sleep at night for another season.

I don't want the cap walk to turn into something catastrophic. The bearings look perfect, but I don't know what the next step is in the cap walk chain of failures....lol....

Does the cap break?

Greg

It will............ Anytime cast iron is moving and bending, it's just a matter of time before it breaks. Same with steel, just takes longer.

Lem Evans wrote:Compared to Nicplaus Copernius.....Einstein was an idiot .

Wasn't Copernicus's grand father on his mother's side a Williams?

Let it walk, not a huge deal, caps won't break. JMExperience.