Trying to find out about a piston

jbozzelle wrote:If that bore is right you have a 526.  Sure it's not a 4.44 bore?  If so, that'd be a 512.  Cubic inch calculator link below...

http://www.wallaceracing.com/cid.php


How much money did you give for that engine?  What heads?

Pretty sure it’s not 4.44, it was right on the dot at 4.5. The heads are Ford Motorsports A460 heads. I traded a running 477 Chevy for it. That motor though ran 4.98-5.06 on alky on the dragster I have with dual toilets and a 760 lift cam, I am afraid this motor will not run that fast or faster with the smallish cam 720 lift and the smaller cubes than I was told.

I think it’ll run the number. It’s already got more cubes and a set of A heads to boot.

Freshen it up and let it eat...

Sadly I was told it was freshened, the pistons do look brand new, rods and bearings are brand new. The valves were supposed to be new but they sure as heck don’t look that way and that pisses me off as much as the crank not being correct. I can’t put a ton of money into this thing as I don’t have a racing budget at all so I was hoping this thing was ready to crank when I got it, but already have a new distributor in, oil pump and pan on the way so I need to check the carb next to see what’s in it since it also is not what I was told. So not sure if I will go to alky or gas either.

Can anyone tell me if those pistons will work with the A460 heads? It does look like he was correct on the valve size he told me 2.30 intake and 1.90 exhaust.

Looking at all the pictures, it looks like a nice build to me.  I realize it isn't exactly what you bargained for displacement-wise or crankshaft-wise, but the build overall looks like a great parts combo.  Just disassemble, clean and inspect, and then reassemble....you'd be doing that even if it was a running engine just pulled from the guy's car after you saw it run, so no big deal there.

Thanks Guys, and also I wanted to make sure that those pistons have correct reliefs for A460 heads is that correct? I still have the head sitting on it and so I am going to try and make sure that the stroke is 4.14 hopefully tomorrow with some help. Hopefully the motor runs pretty good, doing 5.70 heads up with it and if we bracket race I hope it can run in the 5.0 range or about like the old motor did. With the lights Tyler had in juniors if I can keep a good car under him he should do pretty well in the big car even though completely different

cobrakid8 wrote:Thanks Guys, and also I wanted to make sure that those pistons have correct reliefs for A460 heads is that correct? I still have the head sitting on it and so I am going to try and make sure that the stroke is 4.14 hopefully tomorrow with some help. Hopefully the motor runs pretty good, doing 5.70 heads up with it and if we bracket race I hope it can run in the 5.0 range or about like the old motor did. With the lights Tyler had in juniors if I can keep a good car under him he should do pretty well in the big car even though completely different

Very interesting thread. Hope it all works out for you and your kid.

Paul Kane wrote:Looking at all the pictures, it looks like a nice build to me.  I realize it isn't exactly what you bargained for displacement-wise or crankshaft-wise, but the build overall looks like a great parts combo.  Just disassemble, clean and inspect, and then reassemble....you'd be doing that even if it was a running engine just pulled from the guy's car after you saw it run, so no big deal there.

Paul,looking at his pictures aren't the tie bars on solid roller lifters in the 429-460 supposed to be towards the middle of the block not towards the head?Also it looks like some of the push rods have shiny looking spots down towards the lifters like they were flipped around as the wear marks[shiny spots]look like guide plate wear?

Well, Arias were finally able to find the card for the pistons and crank as they were custom ordered.

stroke on crank is 4.15
bore is 4.47 with .009 piston to wall built in
rod 6.780
BH 10.295
.990 Pin
CR 13.0

5/64x5/64x3/16 rings

after looking I think the heads are untouched A460 unless the port work was very very minor, hoping if we can win some money with the car we can build what i really want and get the heads ported by Uncle Charlie!

so it should be a 521 CID motor so just a little bigger than my dads 514 with his pro comp heads lol. His Car was only ran once without stop and it was only turned to 6800 and timing never messed with, think it was set at 28-30. Ran best of 5.81 in 2700 lb mustang(with driver is tube chassis), so hopefully this motor will run OK

cobrakid8 wrote:Well,  Arias were finally able to find the card for the pistons and crank as they were custom ordered.

stroke on crank is 4.15
bore is 4.47 with .009 piston to wall built in
rod 6.780
BH 10.295
.990 Pin
CR 13.0

5/64x5/64x3/16 rings

after looking I think the heads are untouched A460 unless the port work was very very minor, hoping if we can win some money with the car we can build what i really want and get the heads ported by Uncle Charlie!

so it should be a 521 CID motor so just a little bigger than my dads 514 with his pro comp heads lol. His Car was only ran once without stop and it was only turned to 6800 and timing never messed with, think it was set at 28-30. Ran best of 5.81 in 2700 lb mustang(with driver is tube chassis), so hopefully this motor will run OK

Just for grins......What weight are you projecting for your dragster? Did your dad ever have his 514 dyno'd? (Wallace calculates 680 @ the Fly on your dad's 514) If your dragster comes in at 2400 LBS. and the 521 develops 725 HP.... Wallace calculates an 1/8th ET. of 5.47. IMO I think that is conservatively realistic. A 5.30 looks to be within reach. If the weight comes down or the HP is over 800, you might get close to your anticipated 5.0. Good luck!

Colt Macara wrote:

cobrakid8 wrote:Well,  Arias were finally able to find the card for the pistons and crank as they were custom ordered.

stroke on crank is 4.15
bore is 4.47 with .009 piston to wall built in
rod 6.780
BH 10.295
.990 Pin
CR 13.0

5/64x5/64x3/16 rings

after looking I think the heads are untouched A460 unless the port work was very very minor, hoping if we can win some money with the car we can build what i really want and get the heads ported by Uncle Charlie!

so it should be a 521 CID motor so just a little bigger than my dads 514 with his pro comp heads lol. His Car was only ran once without stop and it was only turned to 6800 and timing never messed with, think it was set at 28-30. Ran best of 5.81 in 2700 lb mustang(with driver is tube chassis), so hopefully this motor will run OK

Just for grins......What weight are you projecting for your dragster? Did your dad ever have his 514 dyno'd? (Wallace calculates 680 @ the Fly on your dad's 514) If your dragster comes in at 2400 LBS. and the 521 develops 725 HP.... Wallace calculates an 1/8th ET. of 5.47. IMO I think that is conservatively realistic. A 5.30 looks to be within reach. If the weight comes down or the HP is over 800, you might get close to your anticipated 5.0. Good luck!

I think the dragster is around 2000 pounds or lighter(98 hardtail) with Tyler in it, he is 150lbs and a junior in high school. And no dads motor was never on the dyno, the heads came in bare, had a local guy do a small amount of port work and put some good hardwear on the heads and put them on the motor. I am sure the motor if turned up would run even better(5.70's), but he slows it down to run local heads up 6.0 races and 7.0 races(mostly).

cobrakid8 wrote:

Colt Macara wrote:

cobrakid8 wrote:Well,  Arias were finally able to find the card for the pistons and crank as they were custom ordered.

stroke on crank is 4.15
bore is 4.47 with .009 piston to wall built in
rod 6.780
BH 10.295
.990 Pin
CR 13.0

5/64x5/64x3/16 rings

after looking I think the heads are untouched A460 unless the port work was very very minor, hoping if we can win some money with the car we can build what i really want and get the heads ported by Uncle Charlie!

so it should be a 521 CID motor so just a little bigger than my dads 514 with his pro comp heads lol. His Car was only ran once without stop and it was only turned to 6800 and timing never messed with, think it was set at 28-30. Ran best of 5.81 in 2700 lb mustang(with driver is tube chassis), so hopefully this motor will run OK

Just for grins......What weight are you projecting for your dragster? Did your dad ever have his 514 dyno'd? (Wallace calculates 680 @ the Fly on your dad's 514) If your dragster comes in at 2400 LBS. and the 521 develops 725 HP.... Wallace calculates an 1/8th ET. of 5.47. IMO I think that is conservatively realistic. A 5.30 looks to be within reach. If the weight comes down or the HP is over 800, you might get close to your anticipated 5.0. Good luck!

I think the dragster is around 2000 pounds or lighter(98 hardtail) with Tyler in it, he is 150lbs and a junior in high school.  And no dads motor was never on the dyno, the heads came in bare, had a local guy do a small amount of port work and put some good hardwear on the heads and put them on the motor. I am sure the motor if turned up would run even better(5.70's), but he slows it down to run local heads up 6.0 races and 7.0 races(mostly).

At 2000 pounds you may have a 5.0 ride for your son. If you have Charlie work the heads like you were talking, I think you have a 4.80-490 ET Rail. At 2000 pounds you need 840 to run a 4.90. Definitely doable with an all motor 521. It would be interesting to see how many rounds that 4.470 bore would run at that HP level...... Might want to have it magnafluxed before thinking about 800 HP or doing any serious head-work or $$$ into it. Just talking... What kind of camshaft do you think you have?

Edit: Oh yeah, you said 720 cam........ FMS intake I think is like a Victor 460... It's not a full riser.....???

You should not have any problem running 5.70, should run 5.0s I think. We have a 99 undercover with a 429 with iron heads that runs high 5.6s to low 5.7s.

Colt Macara wrote:

cobrakid8 wrote:

Colt Macara wrote:

cobrakid8 wrote:Well,  Arias were finally able to find the card for the pistons and crank as they were custom ordered.

stroke on crank is 4.15
bore is 4.47 with .009 piston to wall built in
rod 6.780
BH 10.295
.990 Pin
CR 13.0

5/64x5/64x3/16 rings

after looking I think the heads are untouched A460 unless the port work was very very minor, hoping if we can win some money with the car we can build what i really want and get the heads ported by Uncle Charlie!

so it should be a 521 CID motor so just a little bigger than my dads 514 with his pro comp heads lol. His Car was only ran once without stop and it was only turned to 6800 and timing never messed with, think it was set at 28-30. Ran best of 5.81 in 2700 lb mustang(with driver is tube chassis), so hopefully this motor will run OK

Just for grins......What weight are you projecting for your dragster? Did your dad ever have his 514 dyno'd? (Wallace calculates 680 @ the Fly on your dad's 514) If your dragster comes in at 2400 LBS. and the 521 develops 725 HP.... Wallace calculates an 1/8th ET. of 5.47. IMO I think that is conservatively realistic. A 5.30 looks to be within reach. If the weight comes down or the HP is over 800, you might get close to your anticipated 5.0. Good luck!

I think the dragster is around 2000 pounds or lighter(98 hardtail) with Tyler in it, he is 150lbs and a junior in high school.  And no dads motor was never on the dyno, the heads came in bare, had a local guy do a small amount of port work and put some good hardwear on the heads and put them on the motor. I am sure the motor if turned up would run even better(5.70's), but he slows it down to run local heads up 6.0 races and 7.0 races(mostly).

At 2000 pounds you may have a 5.0 ride for your son. If you have Charlie work the heads like you were talking, I think you have a 4.80-490 ET Rail. At 2000 pounds you need 840 to run a 4.90. Definitely doable with an all motor 521. It would be interesting to see how many rounds that 4.470 bore would run at that HP level...... Might want to have it magnafluxed before thinking about 800 HP or doing any serious head-work or $$$ into it. Just talking... What kind of camshaft do you think you have?

Edit: Oh yeah, you said 720 cam........ FMS intake I think is like a Victor 460... It's not a full riser.....???

It might be lighter than that as the other motor was a 477 Chevy with twin rons injection on it and it ran 4.98 fastest pass. Little more exotic than this motor but less cubes. I pulled the head again tonight nd turned motor over and it matches up with the 4.15. Guy I got it from wrote me back and said he would try and get with the builder that he bought it from and see why it wasn’t what he was told, I doubt I hear back from him. But my plans are later to get a A460 block and some porting on heads and having some fun. For now though I will let him get used to it and have some fun and run some index races that he likes. Also the cam had assembly lube on it, that’s why it looked like it did, cleaned it off and it looks like brand new. I will pull front cover off soon enough and try and get cam number off it to check what it is since not many things have been what I was told lol.

cobrakid8 wrote:Well,  Arias were finally able to find the card for the pistons and crank as they were custom ordered:

stroke on crank is 4.15
bore is 4.47 with .009 piston to wall built in
rod 6.780
BH 10.295
.990 Pin
CR 13.0

5/64x5/64x3/16 rings

There is a small issue of note here, not necessarily a big red flag but noteworthy of a heads-up:

5/64" ring sets are essentially non-existent as a shelf-stock item in 4.47" bore (on paper anyway), so it may (or may not) be necessary to call a ring manufacturer directly and ask them to put such a set together for you.  If you were running a blown gas 1500 hp competition racing engine your routine ring change-outs could get expensive.  Fortunately, as a recreational bracket racer with a naturally aspirated engine that won't be the case (although the initial cost of buying into a custom ring set will probably be more than typical).  If you special order a 5/64-5/64-3/16 ring set in 4.47" bore then I suggest you by 2 sets and then inspect (leakdown) & replace rings individually on an as-needed basis.  2 ring sets should easily last you several seasons with the racing you describe, and much longer (if not forever) in a street engine.

As an alternative to the above you can consider the following: JE offers a shelf ring set J85008-4468 which is for a 4.468" bore, and is made up of 2.0mm-5/64"-3/16" rings.  That 2.0mm top ring is essentially the same thickness as the 5/64" rings (the difference is a few tenths and well inside any piston's ring groove tolerance).

Don't be discouraged as this is not a problem it's just an inconvenience, and one that you will have to address only on rare occasion.  By the way, check with Arias first and see if they have any such ring sets on the shelf.

_______________________________________

Mark Miller wrote:

Paul Kane wrote:Looking at all the pictures, it looks like a nice build to me.  I realize it isn't exactly what you bargained for displacement-wise or crankshaft-wise, but the build overall looks like a great parts combo.  Just disassemble, clean and inspect, and then reassemble....you'd be doing that even if it was a running engine just pulled from the guy's car after you saw it run, so no big deal there.

Paul, looking at his pictures aren't the tie bars on solid roller lifters in the 429-460 supposed to be towards the middle of the block not towards the head?Also it looks like some of the push rods have shiny looking spots down towards the lifters like they were flipped around as the wear marks[shiny spots]look like guide plate wear?

Non-issues, just a set of used pushrods and those may be installed either way, and lifters can be flipped around (or not, depending on oil hole location).

Mark Miller wrote:

Paul,looking at his pictures aren't the tie bars on solid roller lifters in the 429-460 supposed to be towards the middle of the block not towards the head?Also it looks like some of the push rods have shiny looking spots down towards the lifters like they were flipped around as the wear marks[shiny spots]look like guide plate wear?

That may be true of this build however, which way the tie bars are located totally depends upon the particular lifters used.
Some can be installed either way and some need to be a certain way.

These are the lifters in the motor
http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=836-16&Category_Code=385Lifters

This is the push rods in the motor https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-7920-16?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-comp-cams&gclid=Cj0KCQiAtJbTBRDkARIsAIA0a5MrxGmW7NEqMawUqRrO-jzKLvYv9B2kvcTJtmGioAyhzlEQSW7NsdYaAtj0EALw_wcB

I flipped the lifters but I can always put them back the way in the picture if it matters any.

cobrakid8 wrote:These are the lifters in the motor
http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=836-16&Category_Code=385Lifters

This is the push rods in the motor https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-7920-16?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-comp-cams&gclid=Cj0KCQiAtJbTBRDkARIsAIA0a5MrxGmW7NEqMawUqRrO-jzKLvYv9B2kvcTJtmGioAyhzlEQSW7NsdYaAtj0EALw_wcB

I flipped the lifters but I can always put them back the way in the picture if it matters any.

Sounds to me like you and your son can have a blast with pretty much what you got. A good clean up like you are doing and some tuning, it could be fun without spending a bunch of cash. Sounds like you are already familiar with this kind of racing. Even if it is a 521, with what you have, a good tune up and you've got yourself a nice motor. My 0.02

rmcomprandy wrote:

Mark Miller wrote:

Paul,looking at his pictures aren't the tie bars on solid roller lifters in the 429-460 supposed to be towards the middle of the block not towards the head?Also it looks like some of the push rods have shiny looking spots down towards the lifters like they were flipped around as the wear marks[shiny spots]look like guide plate wear?

That may be true of this build however, which way the tie bars are located totally depends upon the particular lifters used.
Some can be installed either way and some need to be a certain way.

Correct, but the safe poster is to turn them to the center.

Lem Evans wrote:

rmcomprandy wrote:

Mark Miller wrote:

Paul,looking at his pictures aren't the tie bars on solid roller lifters in the 429-460 supposed to be towards the middle of the block not towards the head?Also it looks like some of the push rods have shiny looking spots down towards the lifters like they were flipped around as the wear marks[shiny spots]look like guide plate wear?

That may be true of this build however, which way the tie bars are located totally depends upon the particular lifters used.
Some can be installed either way and some need to be a certain way.

Correct,  but the safe poster is to turn them to the center.

Thanks Lem, I went ahead and turned them to the center, cleaned some more stuff up tonight, will get the MSD distributor locked out soon and get it put in and the electric water pump installed and after that once the oil pan and pump come in I should be ready to go. We checked the headers tonight and the old Chevy headers I kept from the old motor fit perfectly on these A460 heads, so one less thing to worry about. Hopefully soon I can get the mid plate and motor plate drilled out to fit the new motor.

Thanks everyone for the advice and help. I guess I cannot complain to much, I mean I don’t have a ton in all of this so far.

My flat top 514 with box stock P-51 heads, box stock Victor and a 1050 went low 5.0 something in a 96 Undercover hardtail pedaling the low to high shift...

What you have will run better than you think.  It's got almost 50 cubes on the Chevy you had.  If anything I'd get the heads flowed, get a camshaft to match and go racing...

Lem Evans wrote:

rmcomprandy wrote:

Mark Miller wrote:

Paul,looking at his pictures aren't the tie bars on solid roller lifters in the 429-460 supposed to be towards the middle of the block not towards the head?Also it looks like some of the push rods have shiny looking spots down towards the lifters like they were flipped around as the wear marks[shiny spots]look like guide plate wear?

That may be true of this build however, which way the tie bars are located totally depends upon the particular lifters used.
Some can be installed either way and some need to be a certain way.

Correct,  but the safe poster is to turn them to the center.

Lem,Thanks I have the 836 Comp Solid Roller Lifters in my 466 and have the link bars towards the center of the block?If some of the solid  roller lifters can be run with the link bars towards the head which brand would those be?

John thanks! For now it will have to run as it is as I don't have any more budget to get anything else. So for now I will pull the front cover off and try and see if there are any numbers on the cam and try and get the cam card for it. For now at least he was telling the truth on springs, rockers rods and pistons and rings as never being ran before and the bearings all look good. So I will continue to check some things and clean them up from all the assembly lube on it and get it together and hopefully ready to run for March when we open back up for the season. I still have yet to get the info from him on the carb that also wasn't what I was told, so not sure if it's going to work for me or not either. So I still need fuel pump, maybe carb, need scoop tray for the scoop and a throttle stop for the car and change over the mid and front plate. After that she should Be ready to run.

Mark Miller wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:

rmcomprandy wrote:

Mark Miller wrote:

Paul,looking at his pictures aren't the tie bars on solid roller lifters in the 429-460 supposed to be towards the middle of the block not towards the head?Also it looks like some of the push rods have shiny looking spots down towards the lifters like they were flipped around as the wear marks[shiny spots]look like guide plate wear?

That may be true of this build however, which way the tie bars are located totally depends upon the particular lifters used.
Some can be installed either way and some need to be a certain way.

Correct,  but the safe poster is to turn them to the center.

Lem,Thanks I have the 836 Comp Solid Roller Lifters in my 466 and have the link bars towards the center of the block?If some of the solid  roller lifters can be run with the link bars towards the head which brand would those be?

The 836 have the edge orifice facing front and rear so you could flip them either way but, turning them to the inside is a good habit i.m.o. Never have to worry that way.

Lem Evans wrote:

Mark Miller wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:

rmcomprandy wrote:

Mark Miller wrote:

Paul,looking at his pictures aren't the tie bars on solid roller lifters in the 429-460 supposed to be towards the middle of the block not towards the head?Also it looks like some of the push rods have shiny looking spots down towards the lifters like they were flipped around as the wear marks[shiny spots]look like guide plate wear?

That may be true of this build however, which way the tie bars are located totally depends upon the particular lifters used.
Some can be installed either way and some need to be a certain way.

Correct,  but the safe poster is to turn them to the center.

Lem,Thanks I have the 836 Comp Solid Roller Lifters in my 466 and have the link bars towards the center of the block?If some of the solid  roller lifters can be run with the link bars towards the head which brand would those be?

The 836 have the edge orifice facing front and rear so you could flip them either way but, turning them to the inside is a good habit i.m.o. Never have to worry that way.

Thanks