501 rebuild i have a flat tappet cam

hey so i have a 501 putting back together my 521 let go so going to run this in meantime
i lost cam card
its a delta custom grind flat tappet solid
custom grind camshaft
solid flat tappet @ .50 dur 259/266 lift .632 / .650 109.5 lsa
is there a way to degree this without knowing the specs from cam ?i just had this info wrote down
how much valve lash do i set this at as well?
i am going to run 930-16 springs on the valves i have a set
can i brake it in with both inner and outer?and how long do i need to run it to brake it in ?

maverick172 wrote:hey so i have a 501 putting back together my 521 let go so going to run this in meantime
i lost cam card
its a delta custom grind flat tappet solid
custom grind camshaft
solid flat tappet @ .50 dur 259/266 lift .632 / .650  109.5 lsa
is there a way to degree this without knowing the specs from cam ?i just had this info wrote down
how much valve lash do i set this at as well?
i am going to run 930-16 springs on the valves i have a set
can i brake it in with both inner and outer?and how long do i need to run it to brake it in ?

You could put the numbers above you mentioned, in this program, and set the advance to zero (0) in the program. Then put a degree wheel on the engine and see what it looks like in comparison. That should give you an idea if it has any advance ground in with the timing gear installed on the 0 setting.

https://www.summitracing.com/newsandevents/calcsandtools/summit-cam-timing-calculator

Don't know on the valves. Maybe contact Delta and see what they might recommend. I believe it has to do a lot with the length of the lash ramp used.

It would be a real good idea to remove the inner springs. I would run it for about 30 minutes. Then let it cool down. I would do that a few times, the more the merrier. Also make sure the lifters rotate freely. Then put the cam in and turn it and make sure they are all turning correctly. I would try and keep them all in the same holes once everything is test fitted also.

One of the guys I know swears by soaking the new cams in STP overnight, to try to penetrate the Zinc additive. Don't know if it helps but, he swears by it, and builds a good number of engines.

maverick172 wrote:hey so i have a 501 putting back together my 521 let go so going to run this in meantime
i lost cam card
its a delta custom grind flat tappet solid
custom grind camshaft
solid flat tappet @ .50 dur 259/266 lift .632 / .650  109.5 lsa
is there a way to degree this without knowing the specs from cam ?i just had this info wrote down
how much valve lash do i set this at as well?
i am going to run 930-16 springs on the valves i have a set
can i brake it in with both inner and outer?and how long do i need to run it to brake it in ?

If you plan on running that cam with those PI D2OE heads at the compression you mentioned elsewhere, 10.3/1, I would cc the chambers. If they are 85-88cc, I would consider milling the heads .030" to .040" to get the compression up. It would be nice if the block was zero or .005" to .010" in the hole to help control detonation. It's around 3cc per .010" on those closed type chamber heads. If you run it at 10.3/1, I would make sure the cam is advanced 4-6 degree's. I think between that and your A514 roller won't be much difference, as the tighter LSA of the SFT will cancel out the most of the advantage of the roller cam and the PI heads will like the extra exhaust duration split.

PS: It looks like that cam already has 3.5 advance cut into it. If you had a 2 degree 9 keyway crankshaft/cam gear I would add 2 degrees to that, likely, if you don't get the compression up.

If this is the CJ-V you have I would run it too, along with your 1050 Dominator.

https://www.alkydigger.net/product/ELIM-CJ.html


This car had Edelbrock CJ heads bone stock, with 12/1 compression with a Custom SFT not far from yours and made 650HP on the Dyno.

https://www.429-460.com/t24243-fairmont-472-eddy-head-649hp-index-car-9-77-132mph-10-31-18-added-videos

And something else is interesting. When you run the numbers of combo that are given and assume a 0 deck height a 6cc dish (two valve relief Flat tops) and 75cc heads, with a 4.5" .041" head gasket, the compression comes out to 11.56/1 on that combo.
I never saw anywhere that he cut the heads to get 12.5/1. Claimed they were bone stock in another thread.

http://www.wallaceracing.com/cr_test2.php

When I run the same numbers for a 501 (502.52 cid), on a 4.39 bore with a 4.15 stoke and 75cc heads, it comes out to 12.23/1 compression.

And get rid of that  re-stalled 12" Torque Convertor.

supervel45 wrote:

maverick172 wrote:hey so i have a 501 putting back together my 521 let go so going to run this in meantime
i lost cam card
its a delta custom grind flat tappet solid
custom grind camshaft
solid flat tappet @ .50 dur 259/266 lift .632 / .650  109.5 lsa
is there a way to degree this without knowing the specs from cam ?i just had this info wrote down
how much valve lash do i set this at as well?
i am going to run 930-16 springs on the valves i have a set
can i brake it in with both inner and outer?and how long do i need to run it to brake it in ?

If you plan on running that cam with those PI D2OE heads at the compression you mentioned elsewhere, 10.3/1, I would cc the chambers. If they are 85-88cc, I would consider milling the heads .030" to .040" to get the compression up. It would be nice if the block was zero or .005" to .010" in the hole to help control detonation. It's around 3cc per .010" on those closed type chamber heads. If you run it at 10.3/1, I would make sure the cam is advanced 4-6 degree's. I think between that and your A514 roller won't be much difference, as the tighter LSA of the SFT will cancel out the most of the advantage of the roller cam and the PI heads will like the extra exhaust duration split.

PS: It looks like that cam already has 3.5 advance cut into it. If you had a 2 degree 9 keyway crankshaft/cam gear I would add 2 degrees to that, likely, if you don't get the compression up.

If this is the CJ-V you have I would run it too, along with your 1050 Dominator.

https://www.alkydigger.net/product/ELIM-CJ.html


This car had Edelbrock CJ heads bone stock, with 12/1 compression with a Custom SFT not far from yours and made 650HP on the Dyno.

https://www.429-460.com/t24243-fairmont-472-eddy-head-649hp-index-car-9-77-132mph-10-31-18-added-videos

And something else is interesting. When you run the numbers of combo that are given and assume a 0 deck height a 6cc dish (two valve relief Flat tops) and 75cc heads, with a 4.5" .041" head gasket, the compression comes out to 11.56/1 on that combo.
I never saw anywhere that he cut the heads to get 12.5/1. Claimed they were bone stock in another thread.

http://www.wallaceracing.com/cr_test2.php

When I run the same numbers for a 501 (502.52 cid), on a 4.39 bore with a 4.15 stoke and 75cc heads, it comes out to 12.23/1 compression.

And get rid of that  re-stalled 12" Torque Convertor.

so cutting 30 thou off those iron heads would put me into 12.23 compression wow well it is a 4.14 stroke crank . i wonder thou running 91 octane iron heads with 12.23 compression pretty high ?
yes that is the intake i have .. the 1050 is actually a pretty simple carb to tune .

^ According to Wallace Compression Calculator, assuming they are 85cc now, you shave them close to 75cc, you have zero deck clearance and FlatTop pistons with 6cc or less valve pocket/pockets, it will be real close to that. Longer stroke increases compression. Run your numbers and see for yourself.

The 91 octane would be really tight. I would mix race/Av. gas at the track. You could back the timing down on the street and drive it softer, or water meth inject it also.

If you can get E85 you can play with that to.

only problem shaveing to 75cc i might have to cut deeper relieves into the valves i should mock it up and see how much clearance i have now .ya they are 6cc valve relieves . we dont have e85 in canada in my province . how much would i have to cut 91 octane with race gas would i need 100 octane with 12.3:1 compression

supervel45 wrote:^ According to Wallace Compression Calculator, assuming they are 85cc now, you shave them close to 75cc, you have zero deck clearance and FlatTop pistons with 6cc or less valve pocket/pockets, it will be real close to that. Longer stroke increases compression. Run your numbers and see for yourself.

The 91 octane would be really tight. I would mix race/Av. gas at the track. You could back the timing down on the street and drive it softer, or water meth inject it also.

If you can get E85 you can play with that to.

maverick172 wrote:only problem shaveing to 75cc i might have to cut deeper relieves into the valves i should mock it up and see how much clearance i have now .ya they are 6cc valve relieves . we dont have e85 in canada in my province . how much would i have to cut 91 octane with race gas would i need 100 octane with 12.3:1 compression

supervel45 wrote:^ According to Wallace Compression Calculator, assuming they are 85cc now, you shave them close to 75cc, you have zero deck clearance and FlatTop pistons with 6cc or less valve pocket/pockets, it will be real close to that. Longer stroke increases compression. Run your numbers and see for yourself.

The 91 octane would be really tight. I would mix race/Av. gas at the track. You could back the timing down on the street and drive it softer, or water meth inject it also.

If you can get E85 you can play with that to.

Yes you should mock it up, and check, and use the method Scot told you.

Also if you have single dish flat tops, don't assume 6cc for them. Some have a bigger circular valve relief, and the pocket dept.'s are not all the same, some are deeper. I have seen some single valve relief at 3 to 4cc's listed.

If you can cut 91 with 100 octane it should be fine. At the track fun it straight 100. A lot of other things affect detonation and you can shave the heads less to be in the 11/1 range. The important thing is to learn to cc the pistons and heads first, to see how far to cut, if you go that route.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x16WqQYsAqk

^ It does not have to be a super fancy setup like the one above either.

You know if that 501 went 10.89 on motor, in that car at 3,380 with you in it, I bet those PI's are ported and may have been shaved also.

If not that's a very good combination and time slip in my opinion, from the details you provided.

That's a pretty serious ET for that Combo.

supervel45 wrote:You know if that 501 went 10.89 on motor, in that car at 3,380 with you in it, I bet those PI's are ported and may have been shaved also.

If not that's a very good combination and time slip in my opinion, from the details you provided.

That's a pretty serious ET for that Combo.

ya i was wanting to get this car in the low 10 high 9 area was my plan on pump gas with the 521 was what i was trying for , does not look doable to be honest unless i bump compression and go higher octane fuel

The SR-71 521 combo you have with everything working right should go low 10's in my opinion. Should be making 700 plus Horse Power.

I was thinking, maybe you could get with Frank Merkel up your way. Maybe he has some torque convertors, or knows someone good on them around the area.

________________________________________________________________________________________


This car is about your weight. He has more HP and a few more Cubes but, some very good info and times in his tread. I believe he had a 4.10 gear? and he had 29 inch tires. Dyno sheets included also.

^Notice Peak HP at 6,700 and later 6,900 RPM, after Cam(2 Degree's Retard I Believe) Oil/Synthetic and Total Engine Timing Changes.

https://www.429-460.com/t7463-572-cid-stock-kaase-p51-heads

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDNENkkBBMs

Idle sound with 4" 2 foot pipes and Mufflers per thread, before mini Bullet mufflers were installed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1L3sz2UMws

NHRA Index 1/8 to 1/4 Mile.

https://www.easycalculation.com/18-to-14-mile-table.php

And Nick1963's almost 3,800 pound Galaxie  without driver 521/SR71 7.0 1/8 Mile Car.

^Your Car is About 600lbs Lighter on the Line.

https://www.429-460.com/t28022-521-with-holley-sniper-4500

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox6w1G3L-4Y

Yours is in between those 2. With those 33's I would keep those 488's and get a good 4,500 or more torque convertor.

If all the Stars Align you may just bust off a High 9.

There is very little horsepower difference between a solid flat tappet camshaft which compliments the rest of the engine build to a roller camshaft; IF they are both the same lift but, a roller cam can achieve much more lift with the same duration.

IF the heads can not take advantage of that extra lift, the power difference will still be minimal.

supervel45 wrote:You know if that 501 went 10.89 on motor, in that car at 3,380 with you in it, I bet those PI's are ported and may have been shaved also.

If not that's a very good combination and time slip in my opinion, from the details you provided.

That's a pretty serious ET for that Combo.

`
i am not sure if they are shaved i never cc the heads yet i will though and see exactly were they are at

I would take the time to do 4 chambers, like the guy in the video said, 2 on the ends of each head.

The truck puller guys make serious HP with those heads on or under 500 cube rules.

Some of the guys that do the cheater heads have ways to make the port finish appear like a stock casting, I have been told, also. No telling what you got, with some of this stuff.

supervel45 wrote:The SR-71 521 combo you have with everything working right should go low 10's in my opinion. Should be making 700 plus Horse Power.

I was thinking, maybe you could get with Frank Merkel up your way. Maybe he has some torque convertors, or knows someone good on them around the area.

________________________________________________________________________________________


This car is about your weight. He has more HP and a few more Cubes but, some very good info and times in his tread. I believe he had a 4.10 gear? and he had 29 inch tires. Dyno sheets included also.

^Notice Peak HP at 6,700 and later 6,900 RPM, after Cam(2 Degree's Retard I Believe) Oil/Synthetic and Total Engine Timing Changes.

https://www.429-460.com/t7463-572-cid-stock-kaase-p51-heads

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDNENkkBBMs

Idle sound with 4" 2 foot pipes and Mufflers per thread, before mini Bullet mufflers were installed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1L3sz2UMws

NHRA Index 1/8 to 1/4 Mile.

https://www.easycalculation.com/18-to-14-mile-table.php

And Nick1963's almost 3,800 pound Galaxie  without driver 521/SR71 7.0 1/8 Mile Car.

^Your Car is About 600lbs Lighter on the Line.

https://www.429-460.com/t28022-521-with-holley-sniper-4500

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox6w1G3L-4Y

Yours is in between those 2. With those 33's I would keep those 488's and get a good 4,500 or more torque convertor.

If all the Stars Align you may just bust off a High 9.

I guess I hit the Edit instead of Post. I was wanting to make a new post with more info. Mainly This for the OP and Others.

https://www.429-460.com/t7463-572-cid-stock-kaase-p51-heads

I hope you get that 502 CobraJet. That's a very nice looking build and a killer price.

Here's one with Aluminum CJ's and a few more cubes and a smaller cam, tad more compression/maybe. Look at the times it put down at 3,200 including driver!

https://www.429-460.com/t282-534-ci-a429-heads-roller-drag-car-combo

Don't even try to run that cam with twin turbo's, much less that kind of compression on pump gas.

A cam much smaller in the low 220's at .050" and a 112 or 114 LSA and 8/1 compression with a Big Intercooler will be much better. You will still need more octane to turn up the wick on the Boost to make it all worth while, especially with steel heads.

If you can't get E85 I would not even fool with it.

I used to hang with some of the serious GN T/Type guy's around here, one even lived a few houses down from me, and the other one started me rebuilding my transmissions/Kurtz. I can Assure you none of them were on Pump gas when they switched their 3 program computers to stage II and III on Friday's and Saturday nights out.  Tweaked I(1) was in the 7's 1/4 mile back then, a first for a V-6 I believe. Conley was the ringleader of the Buick Cult around these parts. Watched the new owner wreck it at the track after Conley sold it. Good that it was minor and he got it back out the next night. Fun Times
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phW00rTubms

Found a much better cam calculator. You can play with this one with advertised and .050" at the same time. You can also compare multiple cams on one screen with the graph cycle overlays with the printed charts below that.

It's nice even when you do find your cam card.

Once you enter a grind in chart 1 "hit show all profiles", at the top right corner of the screen. Then go to profile or chart 2, and then 3 and then 4, and keep doing that one at a time, until you have the 4 profiles complete. Looks like this one shows about everything, maybe not quite but, it is very nice. Might take a few try's to get the hang of it. I went back and re-zeroed all the charts and started over the first time, to get used to it.

https://mgispeedware.com/camshaft-calculator/

This is pretty sweet too. Like it say's a pencil paper and calculator will likely be needed, I think they are correct. It's got a lot of good info, and more if you put in your email and go to the recommendation chart, which I skipped. The Adibatic Effeciency Sweet Spot and Desired Power Level will always be the Compromise with Sizing to me, when you want to grow in the Future. I noticed on that Junk Yard Dog build his IAT's where very nice with that Methanol Injection and no Intercooler on Gasoline, and Improved a nice amount with the E-85, I believe to down in the 130's. One things is for sure he had it working, and I bet those D3 heads may have been a little further ported then he let on. He did claim they were still stock valve sizes though. I wish Photo Bucket wouldn't have ate the pictures of them, if that's what happened. They had some Mad Scotty Involvement I see.

https://www.garrettmotion.com/news/newsroom/article/how-to-select-a-turbo-part-2-understanding-calculations-to-turbo-any-engine/