Still overheating - Water Pump bypass hose?

supervel45 wrote:My Stock Ford OEM Plate Cavity Depth Measured .125".

The Diameter at the Bottom of the Tapered Cavity is 4.955", as close as I could measure.

supervel45 wrote:My Stock Ford OEM Plate Cavity Depth Measured .125".

The Diameter at the Bottom of the Tapered Cavity is 4.955", as close as I could measure.

supervel45 wrote:As long as the large outer part of the impeller does not rub the Edge of the Indention or any other part of it, of your old plate I think you will be good to go. If it does you can double gasket it, and likely it will clear. Same with the Shaft. As You will see in the below Link all FlowKooler water pumps are not the same Impeller over Time.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/334694709940

That could have also been why they included two gaskets, for tolerance stack of plates, impellers and build quality?

I don't know why FlowKooler changed the color of the impeller either, did they change the diameter or just run out of Blue Anodize?

One thing I noticed on these Edelbrok CVR CVF Phantom backing plates is there is Almost No information on them or images available.

I would bet if they sent you a plate with the old water pump it is likely a stock or factory reproduction.

supervel45 wrote:My Point of the Ebay FlowKooler pump was the diameter of the impeller wheel is larger then the new machined/billet wheel. If you look closely it is likely one of the very early FlowKooler units as he has the Box and the Impeller behind the wheel looks different then stock but it's hard to say.

It Also has a 1651 Part number Stamped on the Very Old Label Looking Box with Their Old Phone Number and it looks like a Jan. 1998 Revision Date on the bottom right hand of the White instructions sheet and May 1, 1995 on the Yellow Warranty Page.

You Could Also be Correct. I don't know the diameter of the old wheel but, thought the edge would be closer to the edge of the depression of the backing plate as it is larger to Scale of the Housing then the New Wheel. It's just a guess as to the reason for 3 gaskets.

bigblockfordfxstb wrote:Well..... Ok some update

#CVF Ford 460 Waterpump and Backing plate vs #FlowKooler 1651 waterpump

# Reason for update is if anyone else if to search they mind find this of use ?!!  

1 - My thermostat was the 160F HI-FLOW unit (my original comments said 180F)

Ok so pump off and you can see the difference in the "Flowkooler 1651" waterpump impeller VS the CVF supplied "Edelbrock style" and backing plate unit.

Now I've only taken it off and quick crude look but from a quick visual....

1. The CVF supplied pump impeller if level with the cast body of the pump, vs the FlowKooler 1651 impeller and shaft protrudes past the cast level

2. The Backing plate supplied with the CVF Pump has an recess indentation just under 4" and the impeller is just over the 3. 1/2" - not sure if indentation is even needed because the impeller is level with cast ?

3. The 1651 impeller is larger (around 4") than the recesses on the pressed plate so will need to get a different plate.


So question is now what backing plate do I need, the CVF recess not large enough, and none of the plates I can see on-line
give any information and FlowKooler fail to respond, and all email attempts fail.

bigblockfordfxstb wrote:

bigblockfordfxstb wrote:Well..... Ok some update

#CVF Ford 460 Waterpump and Backing plate vs #FlowKooler 1651 waterpump

# Reason for update is if anyone else if to search they mind find this of use ?!!  

1 - My thermostat was the 160F HI-FLOW unit (my original comments said 180F)

Ok so pump off and you can see the difference in the "Flowkooler 1651" waterpump impeller VS the CVF supplied "Edelbrock style" and backing plate unit.

Now I've only taken it off and quick crude look but from a quick visual....

1. The CVF supplied pump impeller if level with the cast body of the pump, vs the FlowKooler 1651 impeller and shaft protrudes past the cast level

2. The Backing plate supplied with the CVF Pump has an recess indentation just under 4" and the impeller is just over the 3. 1/2" - not sure if indentation is even needed because the impeller is level with cast ?

3. The 1651 impeller is larger (around 4") than the recesses on the pressed plate so will need to get a different plate.


So question is now what backing plate do I need, the CVF recess not large enough, and none of the plates I can see on-line
give any information and FlowKooler fail to respond, and all email attempts fail.

rmcomprandy wrote:You are making this much more difficult than what it is ...

As I have told you here previously ... any of the 3 plates available will work well with the FlowKooler pump as long as the pump impeller is level or lower than the pump gasket face; they use a stock Ford pump housing for their pump. The gasket allows enough clearance and using silicone gasket maker here is a No-No.  The gasket between the pump and plate and, the gasket between the plate and front cover are DIFFERENT.

I have only built "hundreds" of these big block Ford engines and been down this road several times but, you should do whatever you are happy with.

supervel45 wrote:If it were me and I wanted/needed a different plate from the one you have now for the job, I would just order this one.


https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m-8501-460bp?seid=srese1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwy9-kBhCHARIsAHpBjHheEpQHJjZ6IoH5MTrii97lt2fWBpYnMXdQe280YyopyiMVbaOFk_EaArPOEALw_wcB

supervel45 wrote:When You get that Ford FRPP plate in Could you Please post pictures of it and The CVF plate with a Ruler or Caliper across the Cavity of both in the same Post side by side.

That may be of great help to others in the Future who run into this Issue.

Thanks in Advance

bigblockfordfxstb wrote:Well..... Ok some update

#CVF Ford 460 Waterpump and Backing plate vs #FlowKooler 1651 waterpump

# Reason for update is if anyone else if to search they mind find this of use ?!!  

1 - My thermostat was the 160F HI-FLOW unit (my original comments said 180F)

Ok so pump off and you can see the difference in the "Flowkooler 1651" waterpump impeller VS the CVF supplied "Edelbrock style" and backing plate unit.

Now I've only taken it off and quick crude look but from a quick visual....

1. The CVF supplied pump impeller if level with the cast body of the pump, vs the FlowKooler 1651 impeller and shaft protrudes past the cast level

2. The Backing plate supplied with the CVF Pump has an recess indentation just under 4" and the impeller is just over the 3. 1/2" - not sure if indentation is even needed because the impeller is level with cast ?

3. The 1651 impeller is larger (around 4") than the recesses on the pressed plate so will need to get a different plate.


So question is now what backing plate do I need, the CVF recess not large enough, and none of the plates I can see on-line
give any information and FlowKooler fail to respond, and all email attempts fail.

Dave De wrote:

bigblockfordfxstb wrote:Well..... Ok some update

#CVF Ford 460 Waterpump and Backing plate vs #FlowKooler 1651 waterpump

# Reason for update is if anyone else if to search they mind find this of use ?!!  

1 - My thermostat was the 160F HI-FLOW unit (my original comments said 180F)

Ok so pump off and you can see the difference in the "Flowkooler 1651" waterpump impeller VS the CVF supplied "Edelbrock style" and backing plate unit.

Now I've only taken it off and quick crude look but from a quick visual....

1. The CVF supplied pump impeller if level with the cast body of the pump, vs the FlowKooler 1651 impeller and shaft protrudes past the cast level

2. The Backing plate supplied with the CVF Pump has an recess indentation just under 4" and the impeller is just over the 3. 1/2" - not sure if indentation is even needed because the impeller is level with cast ?

3. The 1651 impeller is larger (around 4") than the recesses on the pressed plate so will need to get a different plate.


So question is now what backing plate do I need, the CVF recess not large enough, and none of the plates I can see on-line
give any information and FlowKooler fail to respond, and all email attempts fail.

There is a substantial difference in performance with an impeller diameter change. Centrifugal pumps follow affinity laws for flow performance. Differential pressure will change by the square of the diameter and flow will change linearly.
Going to 4" over the 3.5" will yield 30% more pressure and 14% more flow. But the CVF impeller has radial vanes where the Kooler pump has curved. The Kooler pump impeller will yield lower performance when the impellers are equal diameter. I am going to estimate the Kooler pump will be better by half the performance difference from the affinity laws.