D0VE head c/w gaskets

I got thinking there may be lots of people unfamiliar with the port size differences between D0VE, and CJ heads.
I snapped a couple of pics to show the difference.
I understand a lot, if not most of the people on the site have first hand knowledge, however some may not.

First D0VE gasket on D0VE head

Cj gasket on D0VE head

D0VE gasket under CJ gasket

That is a cool demonstration Brent. Major diff in size there.

Bill

Another image for the "compare & contrast" thread:



Paul

Paul Kane wrote:Another image for the "compare & contrast" thread:



Paul

AND ... A "Victor Port Match" is right in between the two...

and much easier on you and the grinder..... as me how I know !!!

I just finished port matching a set of DOVES and D3VE heads to the cj gasket and I will tell you that that takes a while.

I know you can match the D0VE-C's to the CJ intake, but how much can you port it to match the CJ intake? Does anyone have any flow numbers to show how much of a difference matching the D0VE's to the CJ intake makes? I wish I knew more when I bought my intake, if I knew how much I know now I would have a CJ or SCJ intake.

Not real far. ~3/4 of an inch would be about as far as you could go. Port roof and pushrod pinch would become an issue by the looks of it.

Diggindeeper wrote:Not real far. ~3/4 of an inch would be about as far as you could go. Port roof and pushrod pinch would become an issue by the looks of it.

3/4 of an inch off each side? Or overall? Thanks, I just wanted to be sure. I've seen people go too far with porting before, it ain't pretty.

no i mean you can go into the port maybe 3/4 of an inch with the CJ match.
If you look at Pauls pic it shows a bellmouth look to it. It does that because of the roof and pushrod pinch.
The bottom of the port has a small bellmouth on it as cast. The Sides and Top are from the CJ match.

There simply isn't enough material in the passenger car heads to open them up to a complete CJ runner. The outside dimensions of the passenger car intake runner is smaller than the inside dimensions of the CJ runner. One can execute only a CJ port match (to the CJ gasket), not a CJ port conversion.

To add to another point brought up in this thread...a message to the newbies:

If you attempt a CJ port\match at home, I strongly recommend the following:

• Purchase several hundred dollars worth of 1-inch diameter double cut carbide bits
  
• Put in a work request for a week's worth of vacation, 'cause you will be way too busy to go into work that week.
  
• Tell your wife, girlfriend, significant others, buddies, online virtual friends and everyone else to stay the hell away because if they approach you they are likely to get their head smashed in.
  
• Make sure you have no rope anywhere on your property that might enable you to hang yourself during times of frustration.
  
• Call the local authorities and ask if they can park an ambulance in front of your house for expected treatment of iron filings in your eyeballs, die grinded hands, and the blackest boogers they've ever seen
  
• Lastly--and this one is most important of all--if you work for the post office and you have a uniform and firearms at home, DO NOT attempt an iron headed CJ port match.

Paul

Diggindeeper wrote:no i mean you can go into the port maybe 3/4 of an inch with the CJ match.
If you look at Pauls pic it shows a bellmouth look to it. It does that because of the roof and pushrod pinch.
The bottom of the port has a small bellmouth on it as cast. The Sides and Top are from the CJ match.

Oh, I thought you meant on the circumference Thanks.
And Paul, it takes that much money in carbide bits? I used the duburring tool to get the most then I finished it off with other tools. It still looks like a lot of work, especially when its an iron head.

I havent worn any out yet, mind you i didnt do a CJ match.
I did buy 2 long ones to keep my die grinder collet out of the valve seat. that didnt work out, they both are bent, very slightly, but at the rpm those things turn you can hardly hold the damn die grinder.

To add to what Paul is warning you about. I found in the evening, doing 1 port, either intake or exhaust, was plenty for me. And I just did a regular port match. Its dirty, vibrates, noisy, and easy to get shit in your eye. Even with safety glasses.
I dont do this for a living either so i had to keep checking back to Scotty's website to make sure i wasnt making any serious mistakes.

You shouldn't wear out any where close to that many, I think he just means have them avaliable and have larger sizes and shapes. Plus the good ones are pretty expensive.

Yeah, my only point is that the CJ port match is a real pain in the you-know-what (PIA) and I tried to express that in a funny way. My points are exaggerated, or course, but when it comes to the CJ port match on iron heads it is better to exaggerate to the newbs than make an understatement.

You don't really need several hundred dollars worth of 1-inch diameter bits. You can have just one of them for a pair of heads, but you will also need a very large assortment of bits...not only a few cheapos that won't stand a chance versus all the grinding necessary. By the way, the 1-inch double cut diameter bits start at $50 each. Don't forget all the additional equipment, compressor, assortment of different die grinders, etc).

Something I forgot to mention: safety, safety, safety. When you're cutting with the big bits, goggles are better than glasses. And by "black bugars" I meant all the iron filings (in the form of airborne iron dust) that collects in your nasal cavity (and respiratory system). Wear a mask. Etcetera. Many of the bits get worn out, the die grinders receive a lot of abuse, etc.

And if you work for the post office, please do not attempt it.

Paul

I knew you were joking about the rest, I wasn't sure on the first one though. I've got the black boogers and I've gotten green black boogers from doing bodywork. A lot of stuff gets stuck in your nose that you wouldn't even believe.

Little too much talk of boogers here....

I used my shop vac with the hose stuffed in the other side of the port to help with the booger issue.

Bill

billandlori wrote:Little too much talk of boogers here....

I used my shop vac with the hose stuffed in the other side of the port to help with the booger issue.

Bill

That would have been the ideal thing to do, I didn't think of that though. Lets just say I had to blow the toolbox top off quite a bit and it would be covered with iron. I probably lost 5 lbs off the heads alone.

If you plan on porting your own heads though, imho buy an electric die grinder. I did, and i'm very happy with it. It takes a prett good/big air compressor to keep up to a pneumatic die grinder. You can see mine in one of the pics i think...mine is a makita, very nice unit. And like all makita brushed motors, you can pop out and change the brushes without taking the tool apart.

Diggindeeper wrote:If you plan on porting your own heads though, imho buy an electric die grinder. I did, and i'm very happy with it. It takes a prett good/big air compressor to keep up to a pneumatic die grinder. You can see mine in one of the pics i think...mine is a makita, very nice unit. And like all makita brushed motors, you can pop out and change the brushes without taking the tool apart.

It sure does take a big air compressor to keep up with a die grinder. More beer breaks!!

Makita is hard to beat. I put a thin sock over the air inlets on my electric grinder to keep the filings out of there.

BTW nice avatar!!

Bill

I like the electric flex shaft grinders with changable heads, best damn thing since sliced bread.

dfree383 wrote:You shouldn't wear out any where close to that many, I think he just means have them avaliable and have larger sizes and shapes. Plus the good ones are pretty expensive.

Just to elaborate on Dave's post; a simple 5/8" diameter "barrel" carbide cutter for iron, with a 4" shank is $47.00 so it only takes a few cutters to get into the HUNDREDS.

I've done some CJ port matches on D0VES and one thing thats been forgotten in this conversation is hearing protection. The amount of time it takes to properly do it without hearing protection will have your ears ringing for days...

[quote="Diggindeeper"]I havent worn any out yet, mind you i didnt do a CJ match.
I did buy 2 long ones to keep my die grinder collet out of the valve seat. that didnt work out, they both are bent, very slightly, but at the rpm those things turn you can hardly hold the damn die grinder.

Have you tried putting a piece of rubber hose over the shaft of the bit tightly, I have some that are longer than that and I did that and it's alot better vibration wise. Prob wouldn't work in an exhaust port but you don't need a bit that long for an exhaust port, or an intake port really if your die grinder isn't huge.
Jr.