Tuning Help

Okay, finally got this pig started and need some feedback. Brand New package: C headed 598 with a rons terminator. To give you some back ground this fuel system worked perfect on my 557 Blue Thunder headed combo. 2100 cfm terminator, 0 ½ pump, .038 nozzle, 90 pill. This combo allowed me to run 7.60’s @ 174. My thinking was this, spin the pump faster so I changed the crank gear to a 20 tooth gear which speeded the pump up 16%, increased the nozzle to a .39, and changed the pill to .70. Engine starts and sounds great and very responsive but when you get it up on the converter it lays down at 3000 rpm. So, I changed the pill to a .100 to lean it out and then it would not even idle very well, so I changed the pill to a .50 and it stalls a little better but still lays down. It’s running out of fuel. My question is this, do these heads flow that much better that would require a bigger pump? Heads were done by Dave Bamber and flow 500 & 385 @ 900. Need some advice from injected folks and C-460 headed folks.

Mark

That pump and nozzel (if it all flows what it should) with a mid 80's pill will support 950 hp or so, that said I think its way lean. I'd get me a set of 40's or 41's.......... and possibly a 1 or even a twin gear pump. The best thing a guy can do is get the whole system flowed and mapped out to see what you really have. I have a friend up here with a killer flow bench for fuel systems who got my stuff lined out, and for 100 bucks its well worth it.

You need it good and fat in the middle, then be able to take away on the top with a highspeed.............but I'd get it to run first lol.

Also I'd give James Monroe a holler, he be the man with the Ron's stuff.

Also what color is the barrel valve and what blade opening and leakdown%?

I would say the pump and nozzles are too small for sure. My prior A head 588 (450's flow) used a 0 1/2 with 40 nozzles with the same Terminator. Worked my all the way down to a 66 pill. It picked up every time I dropped the pill and gave it more fuel. The pump was fresh and strong, but maxed out. My new A heads are in the 470's. I just got my pump back from Ron's. I had it upsized to a #1. I will stick with the 40 nozzles and start out with a 92 or so pill per James Monroe. I'm also adding a idle bypass and a high speed bypass.

Before the 588, I had a 557 with BT heads and an 1800 cfm Toilet. Used a 0 1/2 gold pump, 38 nozzles and a 86-90 pill

Mark,
The prior posts had some great input. I have a A headed 605 with twin toilets.
I agree that you will need a good #1 pump. Your Terminator most likely already has the "gray" barrell valve. If has a purple or black barrell valve, you will not be able to have it consistently fat enough.
Depending on the type and size of high speed bypass, the pill will be in the .084 to .092 range, and I recommend an idle bypass valve to protect your pump as you cross the finish line and close the throttle.
Your horsepower level will probably need the .041 nozzle jets.
Hopefully you have a good EGT monitor system that you can watch during the run, to help get you through the tuning phase.
I also agree with obtaining your parts and base tune-up from James Monroe.
I hope this helps.
Keith

You mean to tell me those Rons units do not come standard with an idle bypass ? Where do they expect the excess fuel to go ? No wonder they sell so many fuel pumps.

Thanks guys, I have sent Monroe an e-mail so hopefuly he will respond soon. I do a lot of throttle stop racing so an idle bypas will be a must. I'll keep you posted !
Mark

Idle bypass is built into th bv, they are talking about an addition bypass to bleed fuel when the pump is up to speed and the bv slams shut.

so they have one spring loaded poppet for the barrell valve , they just do not have the additional main bypass enderle comes standard with correct ?

KY..most rons barrel valves don't come equipped with a low speed bypass port/provision,like our enderle cube valves have....I do think rons has valves so equipped now though.brian

birdracer wrote:KY..most rons barrel valves don't come equipped with a low speed bypass port/provision,like our enderle cube valves have....I do think rons has valves so equipped now though.brian

All the newer barrel valves (gray in color) have an extra port just for the low speed/idle bypass. The bv's have an internal idle bypass that is connected by an internal passage to the main return. Works fine with a 0 and 0 1/2 size pump. You get a pressure spike when you snap the throttle shut at WOT throttle, but the internal bypass handles it pretty quickly. When you step up to a larger volume #1 pump, the pump is moving so much fuel volume the internal bypass can't handle it all, hence the port as a provision for an extra external bypass.

David explains it nicely.
I ran my original #1 pump for over 10 years with a big high speed bypass, since I was " over pumped" on the 514. My initial setup for the 605 used a purple BV without a high speed bypass or the auxiliary idle bypass valve. It dynoed nicely and settled into a decent tuneup but killed the pump after about 100 passes.
The new style gray BV and the addition of the extra idle bypass just helped make it better. It took about 3 passes to tweak it in.
The pump has been happy ever since.
Keith

Got It Fixed !! The spool valve was over centen causing a lean condition. It leaked down at 5%. Moved it to 25% and man did this thing come alive, it sounds Awsome ! It's a little fat at idle and wants to die if you let it idle to long and not sure if I sould lean it out or change the blade angle. Current blade claerance is .008. What do you think.
Mark

Mark,
Your blade clearance is for idle speed only. It sounds like you have the idle speed fairly close, but need to dial-in your idle mixture. Just fire it up and get it normalized....then gradually lean (lengthen) the barrel valve adjuster one flat at a time to find the perfect mixture. Lean it until the engine begins to stumble when you open the throttle...then richen it (shorten link) until it responds good. From that point, take one more flat "rich" and you are set. If you were really fat to begin, your idle speed will need reset.
The only time to use a leakdown tester is to get the engine to start and run after the barrell valve has been replaced, or if you worked on the linkage and got lost. BV leakdown% is just a good reference and everyone's setting will be different. Call me any time at 678-458-2033 if you need more info.
Thanks,
Keith

Thanks Keith I may do that. I belive im close enough to get down the track. Need to finish a few loose ends and hopefully make a few passes on this puppy!

This is a great thread! Very informative, as I am putting a toilet on my car right now. Good info for setting up / tuning injection set-up.

Tom Jackson

Seems everyone is becoming Alkyholics
Good read guy's.