Good night of testing

David Cole wrote:

IDT-572 wrote:

cool40 wrote:last week tnt i put a spragless 9" "00" ptc converter in my car,which is as tight as they make a 9".last time it was in the car it went to 5000.i had a 8"ptc "01"that was in the 5800 range,with a sprag.the 9" 60'd the same,mph'd the same and ran 5.50 as the 8"went 5.47 the week before.the air was a little worse friday night so i'm call'n it a wash.i'm still running out of rpm before i do track so now i have a 4.57 gear ready to go in this week. if this little motor lives till i get the other one ready i may dyno it just to see where and how much tq it makes.

I have a 9 inch "00" spragless in mine it goes 6000 on the break.

I "had" that same converter behind my A-head 598. It went almost 6500. Too loose. Got a 9" FTI now that goes ~6050 it was worth .10 and 1.5 mph over the PTC with zero changes to fuel system, timing etc

i dont have the power you do i'll pull the chip and check it again to see what it does now,i was runen 5.60's with a toilet last time i ran it.

Did it pick up any 60' Dave ?

Lee , I got to wonder about that long runner manifold.

Its strange that Blake's engine and mine seem to like so much rpm. You got to give them what they want I guess.

KY JELLY wrote:Did it pick up any 60' Dave ?

Lee , I got to wonder about that long runner manifold.

Its strange that Blake's engine and mine seem to like so much rpm. You got to give them what they want I guess.

I have talked to him about his manifold, but he needs to make sure the cam matches what the engine wants with the short runner tunnel.

i'm thinking about backing the cam up some or just changing it to the first one i had in it.i kinda like the less rpm with my stock 2bolt block the first cam ran like hell up top but she was a slug on bottom but that was with 2 points less compression and heads that flowed 360. now i have meth too!

KY JELLY wrote:Did it pick up any 60' Dave ?

The 60' has stayed the same BUT.... I had to back it down on the line due to typical summertime crappy track conditions. Only leaving at 4300. Suspension needs a little fine tuning and I need a good track. Sat. evening with it 94 deg and 65 % humidity it was going 1.20-21 60's. 5.32-33 @ 131.5 The mph shows it's got enough power to run 20's even in the heat. Cool weather might let it runs some high teens.

I am just after it to run some mid 20's so I can back it down a touch and be able to run the number in the 5.30 index classes. The car is just too heavy to run much quicker without a spendy diet.

David Cole wrote:

KY JELLY wrote:Did it pick up any 60' Dave ?

The 60' has stayed the same BUT.... I had to back it down on the line due to typical summertime crappy track conditions. Only leaving at 4300. Suspension needs a little fine tuning and I need a good track. Sat. evening with it 94 deg and 65 % humidity it was going 1.20-21 60's. 5.32-33 @ 131.5 The mph shows it's got enough power to run 20's even in the heat. Cool weather might let it runs some high teens.

I am just after it to run some mid 20's so I can back it down a touch and be able to run the number in the 5.30 index classes. The car is just too heavy to run much quicker without a spendy diet.

what gear did you end up goen with?i'm goen from 4.86-4.57,i think the track is too long now.lol

cool40 wrote: what gear did you end up goen with?i'm goen from 4.86-4.57,i think the track is too long now.lol

4.57 gear. 32.5" tire Shift at 7K and it crosses the line close to 7100. Converter flashes 6050 and it's around 6300 on the fallback after the shift.

IS THAT A CM CAR? WHAT IS ITS WEIGHT?

David Cole wrote:

cool40 wrote: what gear did you end up goen with?i'm goen from 4.86-4.57,i think the track is too long now.lol

4.57 gear. 32.5" tire Shift at 7K and it crosses the line close to 7100. Converter flashes 6050 and it's around 6300 on the fallback after the shift.

good! i think this gear will work for me.i'll see friday at tnt.i've been shifting at 6800 and crossing at 7200 but it's on 7200 for a while in high gear and mph 125-6.i'm looken for more mph and hope for some et.

BOSS 429 wrote:IS THAT A CM CAR? WHAT IS ITS WEIGHT?

No. It's mild steel (Alston chassis) that is certed to 7.50. For a MS car to cert 7.50 it's got LOTS of bars and bracing under it. Still has the core support, inner fenders, A pillars, etc. Factory steel except hood and trunk. Only lexan is in the door windows. Last week I had a door panel off and it still had the factory crash bars in the doors. LOL

I have not weighed it yet. My chassis guy adjusted on it "old school" with no scales. Tape measure and string. The previous owner had a 615 BBC and it weighed 2520 without driver. Might be more but I guesstimate it's around 2750 with driver. No bbc, but add in my 598, JW case trans, sorta complicated fuel plumbing, oil accumulator, etc.

Sooooooooooooo when is a clutch / lenco deal more efficient??

sweet

Copperhead_Road wrote:Sooooooooooooo when is a clutch / lenco deal more efficient??

efficient and faster are 2 different things.

A lenco car's engine in most cases will have a narrow high rpm power band with torque #'s being less important when compared to hp #'s.

exactly opposite with a converter car the converter holding the engine at or around a certain target rpm is about the same thing as changing gears on a lenco when you reach peak rpm.

You are trying to keep the engine in the highest average hp window all the way down the track either way.

i dont know much about lenco's but the cars i've saw run them,with big power,were hard to hook.the realy bad part in my opinion would be the clutch work they need all the time.the trans is $$ and a good clutch is damn near as high and will wear out!

KY JELLY wrote:efficient and faster are 2 different things.

A lenco car's engine in most cases will have a narrow high rpm power band with torque #'s being less important when compared to hp #'s.

exactly opposite with a converter car the converter holding the engine at or around a certain target rpm is about the same thing as changing gears on a lenco when you reach peak rpm.

You are trying to keep the engine in the highest average hp window all the way down the track either way.

So you think the cars with a converter are faster? Seems to me that with the tuning window of a decent clutch package would out weigh an converter over the average in a whole season. Cool 40, Tim Murphy built my headers for the Mustang and when I was talking to him about his clutch package he has a adjustable pressure plate with a farm tractor disc if i remember correctly. The initial investment of the Lenco does not seem so bad once you factor in the initial cost of a good Rossler, ATI or any other top of the line glide. Then add in 4-5 converters for the class of racing we do to stay competitive and have a shot at winning. Guys just amaze me when they build $20,000 engines and then bitch about $1500 converters. I have 3 Coans and a TCI pro X for my combo and all have thier place. I also have over $5600 in just the converters and NOT counting the Rossler Glide and the ATI spare which I have had to use 3 different times. Pretty sure a Lenco would actually save me a few $$'s in the long run.

Copperhead_Road wrote:

KY JELLY wrote:efficient and faster are 2 different things.

A lenco car's engine in most cases will have a narrow high rpm power band with torque #'s being less important when compared to hp #'s.

exactly opposite with a converter car the converter holding the engine at or around a certain target rpm is about the same thing as changing gears on a lenco when you reach peak rpm.

You are trying to keep the engine in the highest average hp window all the way down the track either way.

So you think the cars with a converter are faster? Seems to me that with the tuning window of a decent clutch package would out weigh an converter over the average in a whole season. Cool 40, Tim Murphy built my headers for the Mustang and when I was talking to him about his clutch package he has a adjustable pressure plate with a farm tractor disc if i remember correctly. The initial investment of the Lenco does not seem so bad once you factor in the initial cost of a good Rossler, ATI or any other top of the line glide. Then add in 4-5 converters for the class of racing we do to stay competitive and have a shot at winning. Guys just amaze me when they build $20,000 engines and then bitch about $1500 converters. I have 3 Coans and a TCI pro X for my combo and all have thier place. I also have over $5600 in just the converters and NOT counting the Rossler Glide and the ATI spare which I have had to use 3 different times. Pretty sure a Lenco would actually save me a few $$'s in the long run.

I don't mean too sound like a smart ass,but alot of racers can be talked into and buy alot of extra shit that they could do w/out. I'm even guilty of it too some extent.

I think if someone is planning on using a lenco with going fast the main priority , they should build an engine with a power curve to take advantage of the extra gears because that clutch is not going to multiply "any" torque.

Back on topic:

NICE runs my friends!

My PTC 9" converter locks up at 5500 on the break however I've been leaving at 3200 on the chip/break in order to NOT red light on a .500 pro tree.

Not taking this as a smart ass answer. My class, Edelbrock Hot Street does not allow a Lenco and penalizes you with weight for any kind of clutch transmission. It's a no brainer here as I have to run what I have. I am sure Mr. Bowles has twice the amount of converters and transmissions at his disposal than I do as well as Robbie Blankenship and Ben Mens. I could not do it with out sponsors period. But I have to have the different converters as we race from Michigan to New Jersey and down into Florida. We have found that each track likes what it likes and you have got to show up to win not place in the field. We can't afford to show up with 1 combo at all the races, the feild is simply to tight and it is for each man to be on top of his game or you will be left behind.

I've been spectating on this board for quite sometime and it looks like the classes that most are running are pretty much wide open so thats why I posed the questions. DDS and the KOV are interesting to me cause there is no limiting factors like our N/A class in which we are on a true 10.5 tire most are running a 400 inch small block automatic cars no bars and with a 4150 carb and the record right now is a 8.392 by Robbie and a 157.45 by Tim. Not being a smart ass either just our small block N/A racecar is as fast as the stuff you are talking about here.

D. Sea wrote:Back on topic:

NICE runs my friends!

My PTC 9" converter locks up at 5500 on the break however I've been leaving at 3200 on the chip/break in order to NOT red light on a .500 pro tree.

Sorry for taking this off topic ........(Not directed at you MR SEA) Guess you need to be in the click to venture out with senseless babble like some others here. Nick you can delete my post if you deem necessary. I'm not a trash talker so I guess we wont fit in here.

Congrats on the fine passes and carry on without me from here on out.

No body minds anyone speaking their mind Copper Head Road, I don't anyway , and just to be saying that 8.60 1/4 pass I shut the car down at the 1/8 mile I was just joking with Randy Malik about the 110 mph .

All I am saying is everyone looks to efficiency with converters and its right in some cases , but some cars will dead hook and some need some wheel speed to run their best. If the car is making et off mph its got to be significant and its got to be high rpm because 100% efficiency at xxx rpm is what makes the mph , there is a lot more et to be had on the short end of the track .

Seems the NMRA thinks the manual transmission stuff is more efficient than it really is. If 'they' hadn't hung so much extra wt. on the stick cars Don would never have 'invested' in tq. converters.

Copperhead_Road wrote:

KY JELLY wrote:efficient and faster are 2 different things.

A lenco car's engine in most cases will have a narrow high rpm power band with torque #'s being less important when compared to hp #'s.

exactly opposite with a converter car the converter holding the engine at or around a certain target rpm is about the same thing as changing gears on a lenco when you reach peak rpm.

You are trying to keep the engine in the highest average hp window all the way down the track either way.

So you think the cars with a converter are faster? Seems to me that with the tuning window of a decent clutch package would out weigh an converter over the average in a whole season. Cool 40, Tim Murphy built my headers for the Mustang and when I was talking to him about his clutch package he has a adjustable pressure plate with a farm tractor disc if i remember correctly. The initial investment of the Lenco does not seem so bad once you factor in the initial cost of a good Rossler, ATI or any other top of the line glide. Then add in 4-5 converters for the class of racing we do to stay competitive and have a shot at winning. Guys just amaze me when they build $20,000 engines and then bitch about $1500 converters. I have 3 Coans and a TCI pro X for my combo and all have thier place. I also have over $5600 in just the converters and NOT counting the Rossler Glide and the ATI spare which I have had to use 3 different times. Pretty sure a Lenco would actually save me a few $$'s in the long run.

like i said,i dont know much about lencos. most of us dont run too many tracks,well i dont anyway,so one setup works for me.you have more $$ in converters than i have in my glide and converter but you have to for what you do plus the spare that i would'nt need.a lenco may be the way to go for your kinda racing.

Copperhead_Road wrote:Not taking this as a smart ass answer. My class, Edelbrock Hot Street does not allow a Lenco and penalizes you with weight for any kind of clutch transmission. It's a no brainer here as I have to run what I have. I am sure Mr. Bowles has twice the amount of converters and transmissions at his disposal than I do as well as Robbie Blankenship and Ben Mens. I could not do it with out sponsors period. But I have to have the different converters as we race from Michigan to New Jersey and down into Florida. We have found that each track likes what it likes and you have got to show up to win not place in the field. We can't afford to show up with 1 combo at all the races, the feild is simply to tight and it is for each man to be on top of his game or you will be left behind.

I've been spectating on this board for quite sometime and it looks like the classes that most are running are pretty much wide open so thats why I posed the questions. DDS and the KOV are interesting to me cause there is no limiting factors like our N/A class in which we are on a true 10.5 tire most are running a 400 inch small block automatic cars no bars and with a 4150 carb and the record right now is a 8.392 by Robbie and a 157.45 by Tim. Not being a smart ass either just our small block N/A racecar is as fast as the stuff you are talking about here.

not being a smart ass either but most of us dont have a sponsor so we just do the best we can.what kinda change does your small block deal cost?how long does it live?