video mechanical injected q16

So,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, what you're saying, is that it is quicker on gas since you can get it to hook up due to the lack of power.

rmcomprandy wrote:Now ... add your 6% nitro to that mixture.

wouldn't that be unethical kinda like pouring moonshine in your kids coolaid

Seriously would there be a lot less cylinder pressure with nitro/q16 v/s nitro /methanol.

I am just in fear of lifting the head again only having 10 head bolts, does power = power regardless of how its made or got or what power adder is used ?

Curt wrote:So,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, what you're saying, is that it is quicker on gas since you can get it to hook up due to the lack of power.

that was the case last night yes , but It was not on a perfect or what I would call close tune up on q-16 so my personal feeling right now is q-16 will out run plain alcohol/methanol , I don't know about m-5 at this point.

There is no way I would switch to gas to bracket race I am not dealing with the engine heat issues , but it could be done .

KY JELLY wrote:

rmcomprandy wrote:Now ... add your 6% nitro to that mixture.

wouldn't that be unethical kinda like pouring moonshine in your kids coolaid

Seriously would there be a lot less cylinder pressure with nitro/q16 v/s nitro /methanol.

I am just in fear of lifting the head again only having 10 head bolts, does power = power regardless of how its made or got or what power adder is used ?

Doesn't Q16 have a nitroparaffin compound already?

Curt wrote:

KY JELLY wrote:

rmcomprandy wrote:Now ... add your 6% nitro to that mixture.

wouldn't that be unethical kinda like pouring moonshine in your kids coolaid

Seriously would there be a lot less cylinder pressure with nitro/q16 v/s nitro /methanol.

I am just in fear of lifting the head again only having 10 head bolts, does power = power regardless of how its made or got or what power adder is used ?

Doesn't Q16 have a nitroparaffin compound already?

M5 does

KY JELLY wrote:

rmcomprandy wrote:Now ... add your 6% nitro to that mixture.

wouldn't that be unethical kinda like pouring moonshine in your kids coolaid

Seriously would there be a lot less cylinder pressure with nitro/q16 v/s nitro /methanol.

I am just in fear of lifting the head again only having 10 head bolts, does power = power regardless of how its made or got or what power adder is used ?

I understand your fears. The oxygenate in Q16 is simply an oxidizer and not a direct power adder however, it allows the fuel to be run richer, (because of the extra oxygen it doesn't show up that way), which allows the release of more energy of the extra added fuel.
NOS is the same thing on a much greater scale. It doesn't add any power itself but, allows you to add a bunch more fuel which will give more power.

Without adding it would be a good comparison between gasoline to pure methanol ... to compare the gasoline to M5 would require adding the same percentage of nitro to un-oxygenated gasoline. Actually regular C14 gasoline with 6% nitro would compare to M5.

I have been privy to comparisons of several gasoline's with one another and Q16 already makes more power than normal un-oxygenated racing gasolne of the same octane but, adding the nitro would be a much different story than simply adding a few % of plain oxygenate with no power capabilities of it's own.

rmcomprandy wrote: The oxygenate in Q16 is simply an oxidizer and not a direct power adder however, it allows the fuel to be run richer, (because of the extra oxygen it doesn't show up that way), which allows the release of more energy of the extra added fuel.
NOS is the same thing on a much greater scale. It doesn't add any power itself but, allows you to add a bunch more fuel which will give more power.

So,, though I am not an engine master, I have been told since my very first first single cylinder B & S engine, that an internal combustion engine is nothing but an air pump. The higher the oxygen/fuel level in the combustion chamber, the more power it can make.



If that is true, the how could oxygenated fuel not be considered a "power adder"? And why would it even be offered as a racing fuel if it wasn't a benifit? N2O makes more power because it carries Oxygen, the fuel is added to make it burn. Kind of like and "Oxy-Acetylene" torch. The Acetylene is not much help until you throw the Oxygen to it, and how many people do you know that stikes the torch with only the Oxy valve open?

J Y ,
As you know one half of the engine is way lean...when this is corrected the mph will come around. Given the "hurry up" tune ups and poor track conditions I also agree this is not the ultimate comparison.

good info! half ass reaction time too.

Curt wrote:

rmcomprandy wrote: The oxygenate in Q16 is simply an oxidizer and not a direct power adder however, it allows the fuel to be run richer, (because of the extra oxygen it doesn't show up that way), which allows the release of more energy of the extra added fuel.
NOS is the same thing on a much greater scale. It doesn't add any power itself but, allows you to add a bunch more fuel which will give more power.

So,, though I am not an engine master, I have been told since my very first first single cylinder B & S engine, that an internal combustion engine is nothing but an air pump. The higher the oxygen/fuel level in the combustion chamber, the more power it can make.



If that is true, the how could oxygenated fuel not be considered a "power adder"? And why would it even be offered as a racing fuel if it wasn't a benifit? N2O makes more power because it carries Oxygen, the fuel is added to make it burn. Kind of like and "Oxy-Acetylene" torch. The Acetylene is not much help until you throw the Oxygen to it, and how many people do you know that stikes the torch with only the Oxy valve open?

An oxygenate is also blended in most pump gasoline, not simply offered in a race gas.
You answered your own question ... oxygen DOESN'T burn but, helps the acetylene burn; (which WILL burn without the added pure oxygen).

rmcomprandy wrote:

Curt wrote:

rmcomprandy wrote: The oxygenate in Q16 is simply an oxidizer and not a direct power adder however, it allows the fuel to be run richer, (because of the extra oxygen it doesn't show up that way), which allows the release of more energy of the extra added fuel.
NOS is the same thing on a much greater scale. It doesn't add any power itself but, allows you to add a bunch more fuel which will give more power.

So,, though I am not an engine master, I have been told since my very first first single cylinder B & S engine, that an internal combustion engine is nothing but an air pump. The higher the oxygen/fuel level in the combustion chamber, the more power it can make.



If that is true, the how could oxygenated fuel not be considered a "power adder"? And why would it even be offered as a racing fuel if it wasn't a benifit? N2O makes more power because it carries Oxygen, the fuel is added to make it burn. Kind of like and "Oxy-Acetylene" torch. The Acetylene is not much help until you throw the Oxygen to it, and how many people do you know that stikes the torch with only the Oxy valve open?

An oxygenate is also blended in most pump gasoline, not simply offered in a race gas.
You answered your own question ... oxygen DOESN'T burn but, helps the acetylene burn; (which WILL burn without the added pure oxygen).

Actually, I corrected your statment with a question

Curt wrote:

rmcomprandy wrote:

Curt wrote:

rmcomprandy wrote: The oxygenate in Q16 is simply an oxidizer and not a direct power adder however, it allows the fuel to be run richer, (because of the extra oxygen it doesn't show up that way), which allows the release of more energy of the extra added fuel.
NOS is the same thing on a much greater scale. It doesn't add any power itself but, allows you to add a bunch more fuel which will give more power.

So,, though I am not an engine master, I have been told since my very first first single cylinder B & S engine, that an internal combustion engine is nothing but an air pump. The higher the oxygen/fuel level in the combustion chamber, the more power it can make.



If that is true, the how could oxygenated fuel not be considered a "power adder"? And why would it even be offered as a racing fuel if it wasn't a benifit? N2O makes more power because it carries Oxygen, the fuel is added to make it burn. Kind of like and "Oxy-Acetylene" torch. The Acetylene is not much help until you throw the Oxygen to it, and how many people do you know that stikes the torch with only the Oxy valve open?

An oxygenate is also blended in most pump gasoline, not simply offered in a race gas.
You answered your own question ... oxygen DOESN'T burn but, helps the acetylene burn; (which WILL burn without the added pure oxygen).

Actually, I corrected your statement with a question

CORRECTED...? It was correct to begin with.
An oxygenate which doesn't burn by itself doesn't add any power other than heat. When used as a catalyst to burn more fuel it is the extra burning FUEL which adds the power.

OH good! I'll just take the venturies off my engine and run straight fuel then. Thanks, without the difference in air quaility, it will be killer consistant.

rmcomprandy wrote:

Curt wrote:

rmcomprandy wrote:

Curt wrote:

rmcomprandy wrote: The oxygenate in Q16 is simply an oxidizer and not a direct power adder however, it allows the fuel to be run richer, (because of the extra oxygen it doesn't show up that way), which allows the release of more energy of the extra added fuel.
NOS is the same thing on a much greater scale. It doesn't add any power itself but, allows you to add a bunch more fuel which will give more power.

So,, though I am not an engine master, I have been told since my very first first single cylinder B & S engine, that an internal combustion engine is nothing but an air pump. The higher the oxygen/fuel level in the combustion chamber, the more power it can make.



If that is true, the how could oxygenated fuel not be considered a "power adder"? And why would it even be offered as a racing fuel if it wasn't a benifit? N2O makes more power because it carries Oxygen, the fuel is added to make it burn. Kind of like and "Oxy-Acetylene" torch. The Acetylene is not much help until you throw the Oxygen to it, and how many people do you know that stikes the torch with only the Oxy valve open?

An oxygenate is also blended in most pump gasoline, not simply offered in a race gas.
You answered your own question ... oxygen DOESN'T burn but, helps the acetylene burn; (which WILL burn without the added pure oxygen).

Actually, I corrected your statement with a question

CORRECTED...? It was correct to begin with.
An oxygenate which doesn't burn by itself doesn't add any power other than heat. When used as a catalyst to burn more fuel it is the extra burning FUEL which adds the power.

How to Make Horsepower
An engine operates by burning fuel, which then expands and pushes the pistons down. Want to make more horsepower? Burn more fuel so it will push the pistons down with mare force. Sounds pretty simple. But, it’s not quite so easy. While there are any number of factors that make increasing power a complex engineering problem, we will deal with three of the mast basic ones here.
First, all fuels require oxygen in order to burn. If you want to burn more fuel, you need to also put in more oxygen. Virtually all engine performance products increase power by increasing the flow of fuel and oxygen. Camshafts, larger carburetors or valves, porting, intake manifolds, exhaust headers, superchargers, turbochargers and nitrous oxide are clear examples of how improved engine breathing (putting in more oxygen in order to burn mare fuel) will give you an increase in horsepower. Nitrous oxide injection systems are probably the most efficient way to increase the flow of oxygen and fuel. That’s the basic reason why nitrous systems produce such large horsepower increases.
Another basic power factor is vaporization of the fuel. Gasoline, as with other racing fuels, will not burn in a liquid state. The gasoline must be turned into a vapor for it to burn. This process of turning gasoline into a vapor is simple evaporation. It is basically no different from setting a glass of water outside and waiting far it to dry up. In the engine, of course, evaporation happens very quickly. Engine heat and fuel atomization are the keys to accelerating the evaporation process enough to turn raw gasoline into a vapor at 8000 RPM. The process of atomization turns raw fuel flow into tiny droplets which then evaporate faster due to the larger amount of surface area presented for evaporation. The size of the fuel droplets is very important. Take a large droplet of gasoline, break it up into 10 smaller droplets, and you’ve increased the surface area far more efficient evaporation. The result is more fuel available to be burned and do work during combustion. A well-designed nitrous system will produce very small droplet sizes in the supplemental fuel that flows into the engine with nitrous. This is one of the reasons that NOS nitrous systems can make more horsepower than some other systems.
The third basic power factor we will look at is air/fuel mixture density. Ever try to jog on top of a 10,000 foot pass in the Rockies? Leaves you gasping for breath doesn’t it? That’s because the air is thinner, less dense, higher up in the atmosphere than it is at sea level. It is also why you would run slower on a track in Denver than you would near sea level in New Jersey. Density is affected by atmospheric pressure (the weight of the atmosphere above you), heat and humidity. We can’t change the pressure of the atmosphere, but we can regulate the heat of our intake charge to some extent. Cool cans and intercoolers make extra power by cooling the fuel and air/fuel mixture to make it denser. And the denser the mixture is, the more the cylinder is packed with fuel and air to burn and make power. When nitrous oxide is injected it turns from a liquid to a gas instantly and becomes very cold. This cold nitrous vapor drops the temperature of the whole intake charge in the manifold by as much as 65 degrees F. The denser mixture that results helps an engine produce even more extra horsepower with a nitrous system.

Bruno ... there also are DIRECT power adders like nitroMETHANE which will make it's own oxygen in a byproduct throughout its combustion; some oxygen will certainly help afterward but, it NEEDS no separate oxygen supply to continue burning; only to begin the burning cycle.
That is a main reason that a simple oxygenate and nitromethane type compounds are vastly different as a power supplement.

Most of what you say is true however, is not chemically and atomically correct.
Air is NOT oxygen; air is only about 1/5 oxygen; nitrous oxide is only about 1/3 oxygen. To burn fuel is totally different than what is needed for fuel combustion; (like pressurization).

This was all normal high school chemistry when I went to school. I guess they must not teach it anymore.

Push all day against a wall, burn calories, sweat, make muscles sore till you're completely worn out and yet, if you don't move that wall ... science says you haven't done ANY work.
The point is, Science and what anyone might think is normal, don't always agree.

Hey J Y Kelly........I hear the Q16 broke your tq. converter

Lem Evans wrote:Hey J Y Kelly........I hear the Q16 broke your tq. converter

I wonder how fast the Q16 would have been if the converter hadn't broke..............

IDT-572 wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:Hey J Y Kelly........I hear the Q16 broke your tq. converter

I wonder how fast the Q16 would have been if the converter hadn't broke..............

Hummmm.........

Lem Evans wrote:Hey J Y Kelly........I hear the Q16 broke your tq. converter

sounds like another " i left the battery charger on the car while i made a pass " deal

The converter is just leaking somewhere on the od of it , pin hole in the weld I suspect and it was leaking before the q-16 was ever put in it. I got schaeffer hydraulic oil in it , but its not green so that's probably the culprit. .

Anyway gonna put a friends converter in built for a blown application the converter company says it should stall around 4800-5000 let ya know when mr p51 tells that converter what its going to stall at It will probably slow it down , but it might run 147 mph in low gear too

got it in , called converter company back to give them some feed back , talked to a different gentleman he figured it would stall 4100 it hit 55-5600 on the first hit and 57-5800 on the second and that is with the thick shaeffers hydraulic oil , see how it runs this weekend .

Must be a Chevy converter

Lem Evans wrote:Must be a Chevy converter

we ran the borrowed converter tonight the quickest pass it made was 5.42 @ 123mph . I think some et could be picked up with chassis tuning the 60' time was 1.22 but the loss of power was not keeping it hooked up as it moved away from the starting line and it wanted to move around bad in the first 1/2 of the track. I was more amazed at the 12 - 13 mph loss to a tighter converter just shows the engine being at the maximum hp rpm is way more important than torque peak.

An example of how important it is to have a converter than will let the engine go to work....your engine made 104 more hp at 6,200 rpm than it did at 5,600 rpm.