Re: 500 plus cfm A460 HEADS

LivermoreDave January 22nd 2012, 11:09 am

c.evans wrote:Because I port and flow test cylinder heads, I get frequent phone calls from potential customers wanting to know about putting in bigger valves. They have listened to some Joe Blow someplace that has said they can put a bigger valve in a particular Ford cylinder head. Our traditional American mindset is that bigger is better, however in the case of valves, that's not always true. I try to get the caller to change his thinking about the matter, but many times it's a losing battle.

Charlie

Well Charlie John Holmes made an example of "bigger is better", right to the point they threw the first shovel of dirt on him! And by the way, I read in a magazine where there are valves made bigger than 2.19" of diameter like the valves in a set of Ford FE cylinder heads I own. If you are interested in making a sale, I think a 2.245" valve would be better!... cheers

...

Dizzy Dave
(not of Army/Navy store fame)

Lem Evans January 22nd 2012, 11:32 am

While "too big" can be a prime suspect in an engine that does not perform as good as it should.... intake and ehx. manifolding, ring package, cam timing, etc. are also pieces of the puzzle. An extra 7 hp or 19 hp here and their adds up pretty quick.

bbf-falcon January 22nd 2012, 1:14 pm

Darin Morgan hit on alot of good points about this,and I agree w/Randy M. People are too caught up on Dyno results and BIG NUMBERS. If I had 2 engine buiders fighting to build my engine.A-builder says he can give me more HP/Torque.B- says he can give me those same numbers,but would rather change it up so I would lose some #'s but gain some ET.I'm goin w/B builder for my combo.

rmcomprandy January 22nd 2012, 1:54 pm

c.evans wrote:
jasonf wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:It's all about the package....sometimes a 481 cfm head will drive right by a 505 cfm head.

That's funny you mention that Lem because Darin Morgan talked about that at the tech seminar. Increasing valve size (for eg.) and increasing flow but losing 40+ hspr on the dyno. I'm sure the smart guys were up to speed with what he was talking about but I was still about 3 slides behind.

Glad you caught that Jason. Darin was talking about valve efficiency. He was saying that you can put too big of an intake valve in a cylinder head. Specifically he said that while a 2.500" valve might show more air flow on the flow bench than a 2.450" valve,,,,if it is not flowing as much in terms of cfm per square inch of area as the 2.450" valve, then the valve is less efficient and that's where they saw the 40 horsepower loss on the dyno.

Because I port and flow test cylinder heads, I get frequent phone calls from potential customers wanting to know about putting in bigger valves. They have listened to some Joe Blow someplace that has said they can put a bigger valve in a particular Ford cylinder head. Our traditional American mindset is that bigger is better, however in the case of valves, that's not always true. I try to get the caller to change his thinking about the matter, but many times it's a losing battle.

Charlie

EXACTLY ... I don't want to even start a dissaggreement with people now days about the exhaust valve size on a Ford iron head.
Putting a big valve on the exhaust side is almost useless for power IF the port behind it will not be improved enough to match it. Been there on the dyno and like was talked about, with the bigger exhaust valve the power doesn't improve and sometimes is actually less. That is also when the valve job becomes really key.
To be honest, unless he asks, I just give the customer what he wants in situations like this and let him THINK he did himself a favor, when a bigger intake valve with a few port improvements would have made a much larger difference. Especially with lower street compression ratios.

rmcomprandy January 22nd 2012, 1:57 pm

WoW,
Has this thread ever gone off-topic; in a good way I think, LOL.

Lem Evans January 22nd 2012, 2:27 pm

I.m.o. it's very much on topic...he asked about cyl. head flow but also so performance. My point[s] were/are that there is more to performance than cyl. head flow....needless to say good cyl. heads are a big part of engine performance.

Gary Blair January 23rd 2012, 11:09 am

Mark Laczo wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:It's all about the package....sometimes a 481 cfm head will drive right by a 505 cfm head.

Thats what I'm shooting for with my 486 cfm C's, a good overall package.

Mark

Mark,
I think you will do well with that approach. I like your thinking.
Gary,

72mav January 23rd 2012, 6:02 pm

Hi Gary,
Good top see ya here. I missed Columbus.
Regards.
Al

Gary Blair January 23rd 2012, 6:37 pm

72mav wrote:Hi Gary,
Good top see ya here. I missed Columbus.
Regards.
Al

Hi Al,
Are you coming down for the spring show?

Barney January 23rd 2012, 7:07 pm

All flow #s are is an indication of potential. If everything else isn't up to par with each other it's not going anywhere. Same holds true for Dyno #s. If the peak #s are high, but another engine has better average #s over a wider rpm range the second motor is gonna out accelerate it given everything else is equal, and if the car isn't set up properly then it doesn't matter if it makes a million horsepower it ain't going anywhere.

rmcomprandy January 23rd 2012, 9:15 pm

Barney wrote:All flow #s are is an indication of potential. If everything else isn't up to par with each other it's not going anywhere. Same holds true for Dyno #s. If the peak #s are high, but another engine has better average #s over a wider rpm range the second motor is gonna out accelerate it given everything else is equal, and if the car isn't set up properly then it doesn't matter if it makes a million horsepower it ain't going anywhere.

YES ... Everybody seems to like the high winding, high horsepower of the Pro Stock type engines but, they fail to realize that you NEED their 5 speed transmission to keep it in the power band and get it down the track.
With a two or three speed trans, an engine with 200 less horsepower but, a much wider power band will match that engine in ET.

Lem Evans January 23rd 2012, 9:23 pm

An example of not high winding horse power .

500 plus cfm A460 HEADS - Page 2 CCF05082011_00000Medium

Lem Evans January 23rd 2012, 9:45 pm

Non big rpm A460 deal.

500 plus cfm A460 HEADS - Page 2 CCI12222011_00000Large

68formalGT May 16th 2014, 2:14 pm

Lem Evans wrote:Non big rpm A460 deal.

Lem is there any more info/specs you can let out on this engine build? Did Charlie port the heads?

bbf-falcon May 16th 2014, 5:32 pm

Shows i'm getting old Rolling Eyes

I read 2 pages before i realized it was an old thread. Very Happy

Lem Evans May 16th 2014, 7:01 pm

68formalGT wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:Non big rpm A460 deal.

Lem is there any more info/specs you can let out on this engine build? Did Charlie port the heads?

Here it is.

https://www.429-460.com/t12051-mike-stevens-build

68formalGT May 16th 2014, 7:15 pm

Here it is.

https://www.429-460.com/t12051-mike-stevens-build

Thank you Lem!

69F100 May 16th 2014, 7:28 pm

bbf-falcon wrote:Shows i'm getting old I read 2 pages before i realized it was an old thread.

Ya me toooooooo

68formalGT May 16th 2014, 8:42 pm

I did a search about A-heads and this came up, does the build not have any relevance today or is the info still good for today's parts?

bbf-falcon May 17th 2014, 9:05 am

Its still good. There is just alot of really good engine builders around the country thats figured out how to make big power w/less flow on all engines.

FMuD50 May 21st 2014, 8:44 am

BUMPED

bbf-falcon May 21st 2014, 8:50 am

Cams too small. LOL jk

maverick May 21st 2014, 9:07 am

FMuD50 wrote:How about my current Ahead combo
? Hp #'s ?
2.6 in
1.83 ex
4.25 bore
728 cu in
Cnc port Engine systems full w hand blend
2280 custom carb
Tfs intake also plenum added flowed. Ported engine sys
Cam 1.2 lift. 279 duration
Tripe spring
Titanium valves
Rocker stands not studs
18 bolt
17:1

Chime in this combo goes together next week
What hp?

Are all those dimensions correct? That works out to a 6.414 stroke and some big o'l valves in a 4.25" hole. Yowzer!

FMuD50 May 21st 2014, 8:59 pm

maverick wrote:
FMuD50 wrote:How about my current Ahead combo
? Hp #'s ?
2.6 in
1.83 ex
4.725 bore
728 cu in
Cnc port Engine systems full w hand blend
2280 custom carb
Tfs intake also plenum added flowed. Ported engine sys
Cam 1.2 lift. 279 duration
Tripe spring
Titanium valves
Rocker stands not studs
18 bolt
17:1

Chime in this combo goes together next week
What hp?

Are all those dimensions correct? That works out to a 6.414 stroke and some big o'l valves in a 4.25" hole. Yowzer!

Sponsored content