Re: Mafia intake ?

gmsmkr January 21st 2016, 3:15 pm

Not trying to hi jack the thread mike but I got another question..

Weiand tunnel ram with the top removed will accept a 4500 flange what are the pro's and con's to running it set up this way??

whitefield January 21st 2016, 3:22 pm

gmsmkr wrote:Not trying to hi jack the thread mike but I got another question..

Weiand tunnel ram with the top removed will accept a 4500 flange what are the pro's and con's to running it set up this way??

No problem keep,asking and I will keep,reading and learning ! :study Wink

IDT-572 January 21st 2016, 4:03 pm

Takes a ton more carb if no plenum is there. Might work on a below 400 inch deal

Gary Blair January 21st 2016, 5:39 pm

gmsmkr wrote:Not trying to hi jack the thread mike but I got another question..

Weiand tunnel ram with the top removed will accept a 4500 flange what are the pro's and con's to running it set up this way??

You're going to need a plenum.

What size is your engine?

What type of car?

gmsmkr January 21st 2016, 5:49 pm

Gary, no specific size I was just asking questions do to they will bolt on with out the plenum..

Gary Blair January 21st 2016, 5:56 pm

gmsmkr wrote:Gary, no specific size I was just asking questions do to they will bolt on with out the plenum..

I have ran the Weiand on a 466. The 750's were a little more consistent ET wise and weather changes didn't affect them as much as a pair of 1050 Dominators.

Dyno wise the Dominator's might make a tick more power. Track wise in my old Mustang the 750's and the 1050's ran almost the same ET wise. The 1050's had a little more MPH, about 1 1/2 MPH. These are just my results though.

Not many rum them, choosing to stay with a single carb. If you are bracket racing the ET doesn't have to be the fastest only the most consistent.

Lem Evans January 21st 2016, 5:56 pm

IDT-572 wrote:Takes a ton more carb if no plenum is there. Might work on a below 400 inch deal

You'd have an I.R. manifold at that point and fuel stand off at the booster.

Lem Evans January 21st 2016, 6:13 pm

IDT-572 wrote:
Gary Blair wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:Intake manifolding is like most other componets in an engine...it's application driven. I've had persons inquire about a "mafia" intake for their engine and advised them that they needed a Torker II....not a Victor or the TFS unit.

I'll use J.Y. Kell's 562" P51 engine as an example....it's been four years since it was done and a few things have changed but , I feel it is a valid example.

There was 17 more HP at the two manifold's peak power rpm in favor of the 'mafia' thing. The fully ported victor manifolds [w/o welding etc.] seem to hit a rpm number and immediately fall off.

Randy's engine with the 'mafia':
950.6 HP @ 6,700 rpm
950.6 HP @ 6,800 rpm
951.3 HP @ 6,900 rpm
950.7 HP @ 7,000 rpm

That's .7 Hp from 6,700 rpm to 7,000 rpm...seems the engine is hanging on to it's power.

I have two regrets....
1] The engine was not pulled to 7,200 rpm with the 'mafia thing'.
2] I did not get a copy of the dyno sheet for the best pull with the ported Victor.

Bottom line is that @ 7,000 rpm the ported victor had went back to the house and was down a lot more than 17 hp.

Yep, it's the same kind of deal with this engine.....the "Mafia" holds on to the power longer than a Victor.

1017 HP @ 6,600 rpm
1018 HP @ 7,100 rpm

Lem do you have any feed back regards to what the 17 HP is worth ET wise vs the Victor.

I agree it is application driven.

Gary, 17 HP is 17 HP, who knows what E.T. difference it would make.............. In perfect back to back runs it is what it is.

The deal is that, It makes more power in every test I have seen done, some more some maybe 2 hp less on engines that can test the boundary of the intakes. This isn't peak number either, it's across the usable rpm range.

Lem is just showing one more thing that adds HP to the engine we all love. Not sales, not horn blowing, just concrete facts.

The Mafia generally peaks about 300 rpm higher than a Victor and brings that hp with it. It moves the tq peak up by that much too.

Yep, it's the same kind of deal with this engine.....the "Mafia" holds on to the power longer than a Victor.

1017 HP @ 6,600 rpm
1018 HP @ 7,100 rpm

Mafia intake ? - Page 3 Shar_zpsfmd9iqqn

Mafia intake ? - Page 3 Shar_zpsfmd9iqqn

gmsmkr January 21st 2016, 6:16 pm

Lem Evans wrote:
IDT-572 wrote:Takes a ton more carb if no plenum is there. Might work on a below 400 inch deal

You'd have an I.R. manifold at that point and fuel stand off at the booster.

how would you fix this

IDT-572 January 21st 2016, 6:18 pm

gmsmkr wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:
IDT-572 wrote:Takes a ton more carb if no plenum is there. Might work on a below 400 inch deal

You'd have an I.R. manifold at that point and fuel stand off at the booster.

how would you fix this

Spacers to get the booster or venturie above the standoff ......... Same as a multiple carb bike engine.

gmsmkr January 21st 2016, 6:22 pm

Thanks guys for the knowledge and help I can do more research on my end

Gary Blair January 21st 2016, 6:31 pm

IDT-572 wrote:
Gary Blair wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:Intake manifolding is like most other componets in an engine...it's application driven. I've had persons inquire about a "mafia" intake for their engine and advised them that they needed a Torker II....not a Victor or the TFS unit.

I'll use J.Y. Kell's 562" P51 engine as an example....it's been four years since it was done and a few things have changed but , I feel it is a valid example.

There was 17 more HP at the two manifold's peak power rpm in favor of the 'mafia' thing. The fully ported victor manifolds [w/o welding etc.] seem to hit a rpm number and immediately fall off.

Randy's engine with the 'mafia':
950.6 HP @ 6,700 rpm
950.6 HP @ 6,800 rpm
951.3 HP @ 6,900 rpm
950.7 HP @ 7,000 rpm

That's .7 Hp from 6,700 rpm to 7,000 rpm...seems the engine is hanging on to it's power.

I have two regrets....
1] The engine was not pulled to 7,200 rpm with the 'mafia thing'.
2] I did not get a copy of the dyno sheet for the best pull with the ported Victor.

Bottom line is that @ 7,000 rpm the ported victor had went back to the house and was down a lot more than 17 hp.

Lem do you have any feed back regards to what the 17 HP is worth ET wise vs the Victor.

I agree it is application driven.

Gary, 17 HP is 17 HP, who knows what E.T. difference it would make.............. In perfect back to back runs it is what it is.

The deal is that, It makes more power in every test I have seen done, some more some maybe 2 hp less on engines that can test the boundary of the intakes. This isn't peak number either, it's across the usable rpm range.

Lem is just showing one more thing that adds HP to the engine we all love. Not sales, not horn blowing, just concrete facts.

The Mafia generally peaks about 300 rpm higher than a Victor and brings that hp with it. It moves the tq peak up by that much too.

I would just like to see what the actual ET difference is.

Gary Blair January 21st 2016, 6:34 pm

Lem Evans wrote:
IDT-572 wrote:
Gary Blair wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:Intake manifolding is like most other componets in an engine...it's application driven. I've had persons inquire about a "mafia" intake for their engine and advised them that they needed a Torker II....not a Victor or the TFS unit.

I'll use J.Y. Kell's 562" P51 engine as an example....it's been four years since it was done and a few things have changed but , I feel it is a valid example.

There was 17 more HP at the two manifold's peak power rpm in favor of the 'mafia' thing. The fully ported victor manifolds [w/o welding etc.] seem to hit a rpm number and immediately fall off.

Randy's engine with the 'mafia':
950.6 HP @ 6,700 rpm
950.6 HP @ 6,800 rpm
951.3 HP @ 6,900 rpm
950.7 HP @ 7,000 rpm

That's .7 Hp from 6,700 rpm to 7,000 rpm...seems the engine is hanging on to it's power.

I have two regrets....
1] The engine was not pulled to 7,200 rpm with the 'mafia thing'.
2] I did not get a copy of the dyno sheet for the best pull with the ported Victor.

Bottom line is that @ 7,000 rpm the ported victor had went back to the house and was down a lot more than 17 hp.

Yep, it's the same kind of deal with this engine.....the "Mafia" holds on to the power longer than a Victor.

1017 HP @ 6,600 rpm
1018 HP @ 7,100 rpm

Lem do you have any feed back regards to what the 17 HP is worth ET wise vs the Victor.

I agree it is application driven.

Gary, 17 HP is 17 HP, who knows what E.T. difference it would make.............. In perfect back to back runs it is what it is.

The deal is that, It makes more power in every test I have seen done, some more some maybe 2 hp less on engines that can test the boundary of the intakes. This isn't peak number either, it's across the usable rpm range.

Lem is just showing one more thing that adds HP to the engine we all love. Not sales, not horn blowing, just concrete facts.

The Mafia generally peaks about 300 rpm higher than a Victor and brings that hp with it. It moves the tq peak up by that much too.

Yep, it's the same kind of deal with this engine.....the "Mafia" holds on to the power longer than a Victor.

1017 HP @ 6,600 rpm
1018 HP @ 7,100 rpm

Lem I understand what you are saying. You have explained the dyno test's of several engines before.

I just want to see what the ET difference is. Like you say it's application specific.

Thanks for that dyno sheet.

IDT-572 January 21st 2016, 6:35 pm

Ok Gary here is what you want to hear........... Nothing, zero, zilch, probably unperceivable at the track.

So that must mean the Mafia was a waste of time and effort and the Victor is the time honored king of intakes.

Probably best to even go back to the Weiand tunnel ram. But only if you run the A429s with it. There is nothing to compare to them, they all run within .05 of a second.

Gary Blair January 21st 2016, 6:46 pm

IDT-572 wrote:Ok Gary here is what you want to hear........... Nothing, zero, zilch, probably unperceivable at the track.

So that must mean the Mafia was a waste of time and effort and the Victor is the time honored king of intakes.

Probably best to even go back to the Weiand tunnel ram. But only if you run the A429s with it. There is nothing to compare to them, they all run within .05 of a second.

I wouldn't know.

I was asking you the question.

Albert Clark January 21st 2016, 7:15 pm

Gary Blair wrote:
IDT-572 wrote:Ok Gary here is what you want to hear........... Nothing, zero, zilch, probably unperceivable at the track.

So that must mean the Mafia was a waste of time and effort and the Victor is the time honored king of intakes.

Probably best to even go back to the Weiand tunnel ram. But only if you run the A429s with it. There is nothing to compare to them, they all run within .05 of a second.

I wouldn't know.

I was asking you the question.

Up yours Gary Blair what have you done and I mean in this century, not back in the 70's. today is a different Story I bet you built a Rochester 2 bbl 283 that made 1000 hp too with a set of twice humped heads huh?

Up Yours Truly Albert

richter69 January 21st 2016, 7:30 pm

https://youtu.be/7Iq1B-2paCs

DILLIGASDAVE January 21st 2016, 7:38 pm

Albert Clark wrote:.........Up Yours Truly Albert

Albert Clark always makes popcorn better. Laughing

Mafia intake ? - Page 3 Popcorn%20race%20car%20driver

gmsmkr January 21st 2016, 8:45 pm

In for a good read Razz

Lem Evans January 21st 2016, 9:06 pm

Gary Blair wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:
IDT-572 wrote:
Gary Blair wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:Intake manifolding is like most other componets in an engine...it's application driven. I've had persons inquire about a "mafia" intake for their engine and advised them that they needed a Torker II....not a Victor or the TFS unit.

I'll use J.Y. Kell's 562" P51 engine as an example....it's been four years since it was done and a few things have changed but , I feel it is a valid example.

There was 17 more HP at the two manifold's peak power rpm in favor of the 'mafia' thing. The fully ported victor manifolds [w/o welding etc.] seem to hit a rpm number and immediately fall off.

Randy's engine with the 'mafia':
950.6 HP @ 6,700 rpm
950.6 HP @ 6,800 rpm
951.3 HP @ 6,900 rpm
950.7 HP @ 7,000 rpm

That's .7 Hp from 6,700 rpm to 7,000 rpm...seems the engine is hanging on to it's power.

I have two regrets....
1] The engine was not pulled to 7,200 rpm with the 'mafia thing'.
2] I did not get a copy of the dyno sheet for the best pull with the ported Victor.

Bottom line is that @ 7,000 rpm the ported victor had went back to the house and was down a lot more than 17 hp.

Yep, it's the same kind of deal with this engine.....the "Mafia" holds on to the power longer than a Victor.

1017 HP @ 6,600 rpm
1018 HP @ 7,100 rpm

Lem do you have any feed back regards to what the 17 HP is worth ET wise vs the Victor.

I agree it is application driven.

Gary, 17 HP is 17 HP, who knows what E.T. difference it would make.............. In perfect back to back runs it is what it is.

The deal is that, It makes more power in every test I have seen done, some more some maybe 2 hp less on engines that can test the boundary of the intakes. This isn't peak number either, it's across the usable rpm range.

Lem is just showing one more thing that adds HP to the engine we all love. Not sales, not horn blowing, just concrete facts.

The Mafia generally peaks about 300 rpm higher than a Victor and brings that hp with it. It moves the tq peak up by that much too.

Yep, it's the same kind of deal with this engine.....the "Mafia" holds on to the power longer than a Victor.

1017 HP @ 6,600 rpm
1018 HP @ 7,100 rpm

Lem I understand what you are saying. You have explained the dyno test's of several engines before.

I just want to see what the ET difference is. Like you say it's application specific.

Thanks for that dyno sheet.

Here is the way I see it:
If an engine has more power between peak tq and 300 -400 rpm past peak HP it ain't the engine's fault that it does not run faster.

FalconEh January 21st 2016, 9:08 pm

what about the headlight? confused

FalconEh January 21st 2016, 9:46 pm

Lem Evans wrote:
Gary Blair wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:
IDT-572 wrote:
Gary Blair wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:Intake manifolding is like most other componets in an engine...it's application driven. I've had persons inquire about a "mafia" intake for their engine and advised them that they needed a Torker II....not a Victor or the TFS unit.

I'll use J.Y. Kell's 562" P51 engine as an example....it's been four years since it was done and a few things have changed but , I feel it is a valid example.

There was 17 more HP at the two manifold's peak power rpm in favor of the 'mafia' thing. The fully ported victor manifolds [w/o welding etc.] seem to hit a rpm number and immediately fall off.

Randy's engine with the 'mafia':
950.6 HP @ 6,700 rpm
950.6 HP @ 6,800 rpm
951.3 HP @ 6,900 rpm
950.7 HP @ 7,000 rpm

That's .7 Hp from 6,700 rpm to 7,000 rpm...seems the engine is hanging on to it's power.

I have two regrets....
1] The engine was not pulled to 7,200 rpm with the 'mafia thing'.
2] I did not get a copy of the dyno sheet for the best pull with the ported Victor.

Bottom line is that @ 7,000 rpm the ported victor had went back to the house and was down a lot more than 17 hp.

Yep, it's the same kind of deal with this engine.....the "Mafia" holds on to the power longer than a Victor.

1017 HP @ 6,600 rpm
1018 HP @ 7,100 rpm

Lem do you have any feed back regards to what the 17 HP is worth ET wise vs the Victor.

I agree it is application driven.

Gary, 17 HP is 17 HP, who knows what E.T. difference it would make.............. In perfect back to back runs it is what it is.

The deal is that, It makes more power in every test I have seen done, some more some maybe 2 hp less on engines that can test the boundary of the intakes. This isn't peak number either, it's across the usable rpm range.

Lem is just showing one more thing that adds HP to the engine we all love. Not sales, not horn blowing, just concrete facts.

The Mafia generally peaks about 300 rpm higher than a Victor and brings that hp with it. It moves the tq peak up by that much too.

Yep, it's the same kind of deal with this engine.....the "Mafia" holds on to the power longer than a Victor.

1017 HP @ 6,600 rpm
1018 HP @ 7,100 rpm

Lem I understand what you are saying. You have explained the dyno test's of several engines before.

I just want to see what the ET difference is. Like you say it's application specific.

Thanks for that dyno sheet.

Here is the way I see it:
If an engine has more power between peak tq and 300 -400 rpm past peak HP it ain't the engine's fault that it does not run faster.

I agree, in the quest for more hp/tq more is more. in order to see an et improvement a few variables must be met imo, if the car/driveline is less efficient than the engine all is lost, slippage of mechanical parts or maximum traction is exceeded it will likely slow down not due to lack of power but the sum of the total package. an extra 17 hp on my pit bike would be hard to control, 17 hp more on a car that black tracks will be wasted.

supervel45 January 21st 2016, 10:49 pm

None of that matters, we are racing dynos here, if you can't make the extra HP work that is a personal problem. Razz

whitefield January 21st 2016, 11:52 pm

Dang I missed a lot !

Gary ole Albert got a mouth like a cannon, always shootin' it off.

He ain't got know teeth he won't bite lol!

Gary Blair January 22nd 2016, 11:09 am

Albert Clark wrote:
Gary Blair wrote:
IDT-572 wrote:Ok Gary here is what you want to hear........... Nothing, zero, zilch, probably unperceivable at the track.

So that must mean the Mafia was a waste of time and effort and the Victor is the time honored king of intakes.

Probably best to even go back to the Weiand tunnel ram. But only if you run the A429s with it. There is nothing to compare to them, they all run within .05 of a second.

I wouldn't know.

I was asking you the question.

Up yours Gary Blair what have you done and I mean in this century, not back in the 70's. today is a different Story I bet you built a Rochester 2 bbl 283 that made 1000 hp too with a set of twice humped heads huh?

Up Yours Truly Albert

Hi Albert, I thought you had retired. Still only got 27 posts I see. Are you still using a file and a ball peen to build motors. Laughing

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