Big Hp looking at 1200hp And up, on conv head 460 based block

Spencer Elton wrote:Me again. I made a mistake on last post Head Hunters are alowed.Big Duke Big Chief Are Not Alowed,The head hunters are were there flowing big #s 460cfms,----- My little Mustang weighs around 2870#'s with me in it after scaled and weight added,it has 1.24 60ft leaving at 4000rpms on Tbrake,Killing 15degrees for 1.5 Seconds into the run,You have to do this to keep from flying the front end on these stock suspension cars.(wheele bars Not allowed this car has drug the bumper at the 330's when all the timing comes back in).Then when you do this Its hard to make a SB recover back unto its HP Window.

You have some suspension tuning to do if you can't keep the front down with stock suspension. I think you have et left in your car if you can figure it out the suspension a little better. Tell us a little more about the suspension front and rear. If your adding horsepower, we need to figure out how to make the car work better.

Run the tallest tire that you can and figure out how to beat those f&*^ing chebby boys.

If anyone can help with the engine combo these guys can. I am hoping to get some engine advice from them one of these days when our little sb junk can't compete.

carb gods were very happy today,lol


-rich

Thanks for The input, Converters,Suspension,shocks and computer timing programs are all tough to find the sweet spot,even harder when dealing with high hp SB.

Spencer Elton wrote:Thanks for The input, Converters,Suspension,shocks and computer timing programs are all tough to find the sweet spot,even harder when dealing with high hp SB.

I run one. 60 ft around 1.20-1.21 every pass. I have tuned turbo and NA stock suspension cars running 5.0's and that sweet spot is hard to find but can be done. Like you have mentioned programmable ignitions make it easier but can just mask real issues that could be fixed.

Thanks For Info

Spencer Elton wrote:Thanks For Info

spence this is a nitrous car no bars , on a 275 drag radial (8.01 @ 171). after finding the suspension sweet spot the car leaves hard and really does not lift the wheels too high. hang in there. it can be done. give `em hell.

Spencer Elton wrote:Man I would love to be there to see one of Hemi's on the Dyno .I wonder how long it would take to drive up there.

ill have a hemi on the pump in may? and another on in june/july ,time allowing

Thanks Again Guys.I'm selling these 440 windsors to free up cash for hemi head big block

Not to drag up an oldish topic, but I'm new, and stumbled on this thread today.

windsor wrote:You still haven't told us if you can use A460 heads or not.

I was told the Trickflow A-460s were OK, but I guess that has since changed. However at the same time I was told a C460 would be OK until the other racers had a problem with it. There has been several meetings since then.

IDT-572 wrote:

Oakley Motorsports wrote:John Kyle at Apd gets over 500 cfm out of the brodix Head-hunter head With ti valves etc.

Is this head considered a conventional head ?

Just curious as what parameters it calls for to qualify to be a conventional head?

Pretty much the company just has to call it conventional and it is OK. I've asked the track owner to define "conventional head", preferably in writing ever since that wording was placed into the rule, no such luck. I have an idea of what they do not want, which is a symmetrical port big block head like the big chief/DRCE pro-stock stuff. As far as stock port location, valve angle, valve layout, and exhaust port layout, I never was giving a clear explanation. Overall I think both just want something that is quick and easy in tech, so when the majority of the class is bbc and they all want to run basically the same head...

The BBCs in the class are using the Brodix headhunters, edelbrock victor/musi head, and at one time a set of BMF405s was in the class. Apparently, if its called "moved center" for the intake port instead of the reality of the ports being spread apart, its OK for the BBCs. I *think* one of those 3 has a degree or more "cant" to the valves then stock, but going of memory so I'm probably wrong.

I'm glad I found this thread as I am picking up some pieces for a motor to replace my old traditional Pontiac that split in half last year to go in my 72 Ventura. I was toying with the idea of building a 557ish a-460 headed motor and setting the car up for real street, but I guess I will stick with nitrous and run some of the classes in OK as well as Centerville.

Good luck with the Boss9, if you decide to go that route, Spencer. It would be nice if they would have just tacked on weight to the big blocks as a 400 split would be fine if they were limited to 477 ci. NMCA doesn't allow a motor as big as Prescott, even still you looking at a 700lb split between a 440ci motor and a 525. I guess the small block combination is dead like the small block nitrous combo in superstreet, pretty soon it will be classes that are 95% bbc, sounds boring.

LanceDavis wrote:Not to drag up an oldish topic, but I'm new, and stumbled on this thread today.

windsor wrote:You still haven't told us if you can use A460 heads or not.

I was told the Trickflow A-460s were OK, but I guess that has since changed. However at the same time I was told a C460 would be OK until the other racers had a problem with it. There has been several meetings since then.

IDT-572 wrote:

Oakley Motorsports wrote:John Kyle at Apd gets over 500 cfm out of the brodix Head-hunter head With ti valves etc.

Is this head considered a conventional head ?

Just curious as what parameters it calls for to qualify to be a conventional head?

Pretty much the company just has to call it conventional and it is OK. I've asked the track owner to define "conventional head", preferably in writing ever since that wording was placed into the rule, no such luck. I have an idea of what they do not want, which is a symmetrical port big block head like the big chief/DRCE pro-stock stuff. As far as stock port location, valve angle, valve layout, and exhaust port layout, I never was giving a clear explanation. Overall I think both just want something that is quick and easy in tech, so when the majority of the class is bbc and they all want to run basically the same head...

The BBCs in the class are using the Brodix headhunters, edelbrock victor/musi head, and at one time a set of BMF405s was in the class. Apparently, if its called "moved center" for the intake port instead of the reality of the ports being spread apart, its OK for the BBCs. I *think* one of those 3 has a degree or more "cant" to the valves then stock, but going of memory so I'm probably wrong.

I'm glad I found this thread as I am picking up some pieces for a motor to replace my old traditional Pontiac that split in half last year to go in my 72 Ventura. I was toying with the idea of building a 557ish a-460 headed motor and setting the car up for real street, but I guess I will stick with nitrous and run some of the classes in OK as well as Centerville.

Good luck with the Boss9, if you decide to go that route, Spencer. It would be nice if they would have just tacked on weight to the big blocks as a 400 split would be fine if they were limited to 477 ci. NMCA doesn't allow a motor as big as Prescott, even still you looking at a 700lb split between a 440ci motor and a 525. I guess the small block combination is dead like the small block nitrous combo in superstreet, pretty soon it will be classes that are 95% bbc, sounds boring.

It seems like what THEY want is FULL control of the class to then make determinations on rules enforcement however they see fit. The fast guy, unless it is a friend of theirs, will be deemed illegal if he goes TO FAST.
That is a "Crock of $hit" in my oppinion - rules IN WRITING without ambiguous interpretations are the only way to keep favoratism from appearing.

Simply BE that fast guy sometime who the "ambiguous rules" writers don't particularly see "eye to eye" with and you'll certainly get the picture. (AND, be out a lot of money).

That kind of BS is really bad in Local Truck/sled pulling. If your new,Ford,or not in their CLICK,you may as well stay home.

bbf-falcon wrote:That kind of BS is really bad in Local Truck/sled pulling. If your new,Ford,or not in their CLICK,you may as well stay home.

Same ole same ole, ain't what you got, it's whose buddy you are. Saw that first hand a couple of times. I got the red flag tossed my way after kickin a little tail on the track, he was the home town hero and I was just not allowed to beat him no matter what.

Same way with the Dirt Circle Burners, if you challange the owners buddy or track favorite you get black flagged and sent to the pits...... Just like NasCrap also.....



Randy

It just make it more of a challenge and its funner to beat them at their own game.

I'd much rather be the underdog, the wins are much sweeter !

dfree383 wrote:I'd much rather be the underdog.

Underdog, I thought you were "Undercover Brother".

It's been awhile since last post,Basicaly if its not a BBC you can't run a big block in class,track owner thinks BBF's with write head aren't legal i have given him a 10 page write up on Boss429 head he can't deny that it's as close to conventional as any BBC head in class.And i believe he is going to let them in nex't year.Also i've done some changes to car in off season and think by May 15 race i'll poss be able to run with them.Also i've always been the underdog and love to line up,cut a light and leave on them,Then watch them over power the track trying to catch me.Or watch them go red trying to cut a better light the next round.Thanks Again For Everyone's Support.

Good Luck with that

Keep us updated.

He's right they are scared of the big Fords around here. Afraid they wont be able to keep up. To bad there is so much chebbie bias around here, things would be alot more fun.

Spencer Elton wrote:It's been awhile since last post,Basicaly if its not a BBC you can't run a big block in class,track owner thinks BBF's with write head aren't legal i have given him a 10 page write up on Boss429 head he can't deny that it's as close to conventional as any BBC head in class.And i believe he is going to let them in nex't year.Also i've done some changes to car in off season and think by May 15 race i'll poss be able to run with them.Also i've always been the underdog and love to line up,cut a light and leave on them,Then watch them over power the track trying to catch me.Or watch them go red trying to cut a better light the next round.Thanks Again For Everyone's Support.

Good Luck Spencer!

Honestly, I'm done asking permission all it has done is get my ideas shot down before they are even put into action. I'll go with the approach others have, do it anyway and see if anything is said. Similar to the lexan windows in superstreet, or all those 4-link cars from Texas/Louisiana I'm still interested in seeing if they ever show up, been three years now. LOL. This area has become saturated with different tracks running the same, but different classes so with the car there at tech they'll have to decide if they want the car count or not.

In the case of the trick-flow a-460, I do not see what makes it not conventional with the way the rules have been explained, to me. I do see the are in the $3000 range compared to $5,000 for the head hunters. What is the difference of the TFS a-460 from say a stock iron head besides valve location and exhaust port mounting flange?

schmitty wrote:

dfree383 wrote:I'd much rather be the underdog.

Underdog, I thought you were "Undercover Brother".

May-o-naise...........

Chevy Guys never like to be out done by a Ford, Pisses them off to no end........

That is why the Super Chevy shows don't allow non-Bowties to run 'em.

LanceDavis wrote:

Spencer Elton wrote:It's been awhile since last post,Basicaly if its not a BBC you can't run a big block in class,track owner thinks BBF's with write head aren't legal i have given him a 10 page write up on Boss429 head he can't deny that it's as close to conventional as any BBC head in class.And i believe he is going to let them in nex't year.Also i've done some changes to car in off season and think by May 15 race i'll poss be able to run with them.Also i've always been the underdog and love to line up,cut a light and leave on them,Then watch them over power the track trying to catch me.Or watch them go red trying to cut a better light the next round.Thanks Again For Everyone's Support.

Good Luck Spencer!

Honestly, I'm done asking permission all it has done is get my ideas shot down before they are even put into action. I'll go with the approach others have, do it anyway and see if anything is said. Similar to the lexan windows in superstreet, or all those 4-link cars from Texas/Louisiana I'm still interested in seeing if they ever show up, been three years now. LOL. This area has become saturated with different tracks running the same, but different classes so with the car there at tech they'll have to decide if they want the car count or not.

In the case of the trick-flow a-460, I do not see what makes it not conventional with the way the rules have been explained, to me. I do see the are in the $3000 range compared to $5,000 for the head hunters. What is the difference of the TFS a-460 from say a stock iron head besides valve location and exhaust port mounting flange?

A RAISED intake port...!

The only thing I can envision is that the "Head Hunter" head has only a "very slightly" raised intake port location and can use stock type intake manifolds.. BUT, they also REQUIRE shaft type rockers to be used; (that doesn't sound CONVENTIONAL to me...?)
A ported Kaase P-51 or a ported latest offering "Blue Thunder", (which has revised intake ports and the Chevy exhaust ports), are the best NON-raised intake port Ford heads. I can only presume that the undefined AMOUNT that the intake port is raised is what makes their decision.
IF that is NOT the case then a A-460 head should certainly qualify as a CONVENTIONAL type head.

511Fox wrote:That is why the Super Chevy shows don't allow non-Bowties to run 'em.

Sort of, Super Chevy "opened" the classes to allow B-O-P entries, into the bracket racing portion only at their show a few years back.

Trust me in that BOP followers do not like the chevy people anymore then the Ford people do...

rmcomprandy wrote:

A RAISED intake port...!

The only thing I can envision is that the "Head Hunter" head has only a "very slightly" raised intake port location and can use stock type intake manifolds.. BUT, they also REQUIRE shaft type rockers to be used; (that doesn't sound CONVENTIONAL to me...?)
A ported Kaase P-51 or a ported latest offering "Blue Thunder", (which has revised intake ports and the Chevy exhaust ports), are the best NON-raised intake port Ford heads. I can only presume that the undefined AMOUNT that the intake port is raised is what makes their decision.
IF that is NOT the case then a A-460 head should certainly qualify as a CONVENTIONAL type head.

I should note that one car isn't running the Brodix BP HH BB383, that car is running the BP HH BB 383 MC head which has a "non standard valve center-line", it appears that they require a 2 degree valve rolled piston. I was told that they are looking at the ports on a horizontal plane for movement, not vertical.

NMCA allows these TFS heads, but do not allow the Head Hunters in Pro Stock.
Trick Flow A-460—PN# TFS-21002, 5441B001, and 5451B001

I'm not 100% certain on all the stock dims and aftermarket dims of the BBF components (that's one of the reasons I'm here ), the BBF reminds me of a stretched bore space Pontiac. Pontiac and Ford seemed to "borrow" each others ideas in the engines throughout the 50s-60s, the most blatant "borrowing" would been Pontiac's RAV program. I'm picking up a stock 460 this friday to use the block in a new motor build on a "budget", of course, I'm pretty dead set on using TFS A-460s. After it is done and in the car I may take it down to Prescott and enter Real Street, being in a Pontiac body I'm sure I can at least get it into tech before they catch on. I know it will be fine to run them in the class at a different track in the area, with the size of the motor I *could* run NMCA if I wanted, but can't run with the "Outlaws" at Prescott? Weird.

rmcomprandy wrote:

A RAISED intake port...!

The only thing I can envision is that the "Head Hunter" head has only a "very slightly" raised intake port location and can use stock type intake manifolds.. BUT, they also REQUIRE shaft type rockers to be used; (that doesn't sound CONVENTIONAL to me...?)
A ported Kaase P-51 or a ported latest offering "Blue Thunder", (which has revised intake ports and the Chevy exhaust ports), are the best NON-raised intake port Ford heads. I can only presume that the undefined AMOUNT that the intake port is raised is what makes their decision.
IF that is NOT the case then a A-460 head should certainly qualify as a CONVENTIONAL type head.

I should note that one car isn't running the Brodix BP HH BB383, that car is running the BP HH BB 383 MC head which has a "non standard valve center-line", it appears that they require a 2 degree valve rolled piston. I was told that they are looking at the ports on a horizontal plane for movement, not vertical.

I'm not 100% certain on all the stock dims and aftermarket dims of the BBF components (that's one of the reasons I'm here ), the BBF reminds me of a stretched bore space Pontiac. Pontiac and Ford seemed to "borrow" each others ideas in the engines throughout the 50s-60s, the most blatant "borrowing" would been Pontiac's RAV program. I'm picking up a stock 460 this friday to use the block in a new motor build on a "budget", of course, I'm pretty dead set on using TFS A-460s. :[/quote]


As I recall, none of the Brodix "Head Hunter" heads has "spread" intake PORTS. The MC head simply has moved and spread VALVE centerlines.
The TFS A-460 heads can use STANDARD Ford 385 series valve train, just different length pushrods. The intake ports are rectangular shaped, (instead of a wide oval), and RAISED. Those intake valves are only 1/2 degree different from stock production however, are certainly "non standard valve center-line".. The exhausts are about 5 degrees different from stock production and of course, also are in a different location. Bores smaller than 4.44" are very restrictive to breathing.