IDT porn now with flow #'s!

DanH wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:Wants and needs are not the same thing.

if I need a 1.90 ratio -- one guess what I want . hint not 1,80 or 1.73

That is one of the advantages of "custom" rocker arms.

Why not 2.1/1 ...? Why would you stop at 1.9/1 ...?

The performance ADVANTAGE would be in the ratio NOT the type mount it has.

SHAFT rockers have a lot of other small advantages but, NOT in historesis or dependability over canted valve studs with a good girdle when high valve spring pressures and large, stiff pushrods are used. To say that bolt down, shaft rocker mounts are emphaticly bettier as a performance fact just isn't true. They are NOT necessarily MORE stable just because the rocker arm is mounted to a shaft. Actual direct comparison Spintron testing proves the facts, not theories or opinions.

Use whatever you want to use and if you have OPINIONS about certain things then they should be stated as opinions, (which is certainly fine), but, NOT as FACTS which haven't been proven in direct COMPARISON testing.

c.evans wrote:

cool40 wrote:

c.evans wrote:Nice numbers cool40. Were the exhausts flowed with a test pipe?

Uncle Charlie

no,that was without.the ex. was better than i thought it would be but intake was a little less.i went back and looked at eliminator's web site and it's not realy clear where the "peak" #'s they speak of are at.we only went to .900 and these things can be bought with springs to go over 1.0 so who knows. the .500 #'s were pritty good i i thought.the guys who flowed them said that a stainless valve would show a better number than a ti. would,becouse of the thin edge on the head? you ever saw that Charlie?

cool40,

I have not seen a thin margin, or edge as you call it, help or change the flow very much on the intakes. However, "they" may have had a thin margin stainless steel valve there for you to verify or test what they are saying.

Of course as you know, we generally like for the margin thickness to be greater on a titanium valve, just for a strength issue, because titanium is not as strong of a metal, as the stainless steel alloys. Too thin of a margin, and too much spring pressure, results in a titanium valve being swallowed. Also, steeper seat angles make it worse from a physics standpoint.

On the exhaust side,,,,exhaust valves will flow better with a thicker margin than a thin margin.

Hope this helps,

Charlie

thanks Charlie,i used the valves i got from you for flowing so those numbers will be how it'll be ran.i'd liked to had another valve to try in the ex.side just to see how much it changed,if any,because of the way the stem is made under the head.does that long taper stem help flow?

cool40,

Yes, the long taper always helps the exhaust flow on true aftermarket racing heads like what you have. That's called the underhead angle, and the valve is called a "tuliped shape" exhaust valve. It would make the exhaust valve prohibitively heavy for high rpm usage, if we used stainless steel as the material. Titanium allows us to have the correct shape and not carry a big weight penalty.

Hope this helps,
Charlie

rmcomprandy wrote:

BOSS 429 wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:If/when a guy had an A460 cyl head designed for a shaft rocker deal it'd be cool ......I aint seen one yet.

I USE THE JESSEL ON THE EX 514 HEADS, WELL WORTH IT, FOR THE RPM THESE HEADS NEED TO SEE I WOULDNT RUN A STUD MOUNTED ROCKER

"WELL WORTH IT" is totally subjective.
I just know your OPPINION is much more conducive than any actual testing on a Spintron could possibly be. After all, YOU SAID SO, lol.

But your opinions and condecending statements are ALWAYS acceptable. Every time you post I would swear you believe your typing with the finger of God. You like facts, heres a fact. Shaft mount rockers have many benefits over stud mount rockers, not the least of which is maintenance when they are properly set up. If they werent better there would be no market for them at the price they go for. Heres another fact. We dont race dynos, spintrons, theories, opinions, or attitudes. Just because your knowledgable doesnt make what you say any more, or less valuable then the statements, beliefs, opinions, or actual real world testing that has produced REAL numbers of others. The bottom line is that differing opinions are VERY healthy for forums like this, and for our hobby in general. If everyone did exactly the same thing everytime with exactly the same parts our hobby would never move forward and no new technology would be created. Ill take a motor that Boss429 built and put it in a lane next to ANY comparable setup you built and give you 1 guess who would get the stripe PERIOD, why? Because thats my opinion!!!

rmcomprandy wrote:

DanH wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:Wants and needs are not the same thing.

if I need a 1.90 ratio -- one guess what I want . hint not 1,80 or 1.73

That is one of the advantages of "custom" rocker arms.

Why not 2.1/1 ...? Why would you stop at 1.9/1 ...?

The performance ADVANTAGE would be in the ratio NOT the type mount it has.

SHAFT rockers have a lot of other small advantages but, NOT in historesis or dependability over canted valve studs with a good girdle when high valve spring pressures and large, stiff pushrods are used. To say that bolt down, shaft rocker mounts are emphaticly bettier as a performance fact just isn't true. They are NOT necessarily MORE stable just because the rocker arm is mounted to a shaft. Actual direct comparison Spintron testing proves the facts, not theories or opinions.

Use whatever you want to use and if you have OPINIONS about certain things then they should be stated as opinions, (which is certainly fine), but, NOT as FACTS which haven't been proven in direct COMPARISON testing.

what I stated is a fact and you coverd it -- different ratios can be had. other fact is thats all I said in that post

Lem Evans wrote:

DanH wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:Wants and needs are not the same thing.

if I need a 1.90 ratio -- one guess what I want . hint not 1,80 or 1.73

My point is/was.....most racers do not need that lift range and will not do the maintance required to do so. Some people think that...if one could do something they should.
Most racers do not have Ti valves.....big/thick p.rods etc. ...so at that point I'd think a 1.9 rocker would not be wanted or needed .
By all means do what you need to do.

my point is - shaft rocker are available in different ratios , while stud mounts are limited. btw anything more than showroom stock is a want -- that my opinion

thanks for all the opinions and facts guy's.i may need to move this over to yellow bullet where we can all cuss each other too.

Barney wrote:

rmcomprandy wrote:

BOSS 429 wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:If/when a guy had an A460 cyl head designed for a shaft rocker deal it'd be cool ......I aint seen one yet.

I USE THE JESSEL ON THE EX 514 HEADS, WELL WORTH IT, FOR THE RPM THESE HEADS NEED TO SEE I WOULDNT RUN A STUD MOUNTED ROCKER

"WELL WORTH IT" is totally subjective.
I just know your OPPINION is much more conducive than any actual testing on a Spintron could possibly be. After all, YOU SAID SO, lol.

But your opinions and condecending statements are ALWAYS acceptable. Every time you post I would swear you believe your typing with the finger of God. You like facts, heres a fact. Shaft mount rockers have many benefits over stud mount rockers, not the least of which is maintenance when they are properly set up. If they werent better there would be no market for them at the price they go for. Heres another fact. We dont race dynos, spintrons, theories, opinions, or attitudes. Just because your knowledgable doesnt make what you say any more, or less valuable then the statements, beliefs, opinions, or actual real world testing that has produced REAL numbers of others. The bottom line is that differing opinions are VERY healthy for forums like this, and for our hobby in general. If everyone did exactly the same thing everytime with exactly the same parts our hobby would never move forward and no new technology would be created. Ill take a motor that Boss429 built and put it in a lane next to ANY comparable setup you built and give you 1 guess who would get the stripe PERIOD, why? Because thats my opinion!!!

And, you are entitled to your OPINION reguardless of whether it is actually correct or not.

I think you totally miss the point that I am trying to make...
When there is anything SUBJECTIVE discussed on here, (such as "better" or "most" or "prefered"), there is ALWAYS room for differing thoughts and NOTHING should be refered to a an ABSOLUTE. When I have an opinion, it is stated as an opinion.
The situation tends to dictate what is most beneficial to that particular combination in question.

As far as being that market for anything ... as Ben Franklin said over a 150 years ago, "Just because 50,000 people believe in a dumb idea; it's still a dumb idea".
People buy what they want to buy simply because they BELIEVE it to be right reguardless of whether it actually is or not.

I remember "Pet Rocks"; you probably won't.

cool40 wrote:thanks for all the opinions and facts guy's.i may need to move this over to yellow bullet where we can all cuss each other too.

SORRY, cool40 ... it simply riles me when somebody refers to ANYTHING SUBJECTIVE in terms of an ABSOLUTE. It is merely an absolute to SOME people and that certainly doesn't make it true.

if you need more lift and were using the rockers to achieve it man the way I look at it a New cam is way cheaper than Shaft rockers..... I prefer Rocker Stud and everything connected much more stable....and Freakin hell of alot cheaper for no better system....


JMHO
Randy


and Boss 429 why the Hell are you yelling?

rmcomprandy wrote:

cool40 wrote:thanks for all the opinions and facts guy's.i may need to move this over to yellow bullet where we can all cuss each other too.

SORRY, cool40 ... it simply riles me when somebody refers to ANYTHING SUBJECTIVE in terms of an ABSOLUTE. It is merely an absolute to SOME people and that certainly doesn't make it true.

But if Randy says it, it must be Gospel!

so when are the new Pro Comp shaft mount rockers gonna be available?????? I "NEED" a set..............because I saws it on that thar internet............where's my f-ckin snake?!?!?!

richter69 wrote:so when are the new Pro Comp shaft mount rockers gonna be available?????? I "NEED" a set..............because I saws it on that thar internet............where's my f-ckin snake?!?!?!

They already are available... AND that is the underlining of one of the points here.
They just gotta be better ... after all, they are a shaft rocker ... right???

Curt: I'll rarely say ANYTHING as an ABSOLUTE unless I've actually A-B tested it in a fair comparison. But, you can believe whatever you want to believe; that is your right.

rmcomprandy wrote:

richter69 wrote:so when are the new Pro Comp shaft mount rockers gonna be available?????? I "NEED" a set..............because I saws it on that thar internet............where's my f-ckin snake?!?!?!

They already are available... AND that is the underlining of one of the points here.
They just gotta be better ... after all, they are a shaft rocker ... right???

Curt: I'll rarely say ANYTHING as an ABSOLUTE unless I've actually A-B tested it in a fair comparison. But, you can believe whatever you want to believe; that is your right.

I believe Boss429 offered fair A-B comparison. Stud mounted and girdled broke in the same application that shafts didnt in a 1000+hp EX514 headed pull truck, it doesnt get much more A-B than that, but I guess since it wasnt yoour example it doesnt count then, right? Your just the guy in class that likes to hear yourself talk, but when challenged you'll just back peddle like an all pro DB. Isnt "at its finest" subjective? Or is that what YOU believe.

i really like my yella terra's .........


this is a good thread guys .... a lot to learn ......

rmcomprandy wrote:Curt: I'll rarely say ANYTHING as an ABSOLUTE unless I've actually A-B tested it in a fair comparison. But, you can believe whatever you want to believe; that is your right.

Randy,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I know,,,,,,,,,,,,, you are a god!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If it werent for you, we would not have had Adam & Eve. I am becoming a believer in RANDY. I have forwarded this forum to Warren Johnson, Roy Johnson, Jon Kaase, David Reher, Jack Roush, Richard Childress, Roger Penske and Larry Morgan. They have concurred that stud rockers and girdles would be better (just cause you said).

Thank you Lord Randy

the Coug wrote:if you need more lift and were using the rockers to achieve it man the way I look at it a New cam is way cheaper than Shaft rockers..... I prefer Rocker Stud and everything connected much more stable....and Freakin hell of alot cheaper for no better system....


JMHO
Randy


and Boss 429 why the Hell are you yelling?

There comes a point when a larger camshaft isnt a viable answer. If you were prying up a manhole cover, would you rather have a 1 foot pry bar, or a 6 foot long pry bar? Same principle. How many motors that see 8500+ use stud mount rockers? VERY FEW.

i'm not even wanting in on this piss'n match and as bruno said "a lot to learn in this thread",would a 1.8 or 1.9 shaft rocker put more load/wear on the pushrod side of the valvetrain?like a 1 foot prybar vs a 6foot prybar.

yes, It'll load the p. rod, rocker heel and lifter more.

Lem Evans wrote:yes, It'll load the p. rod, rocker heel and lifter more.

thanks Lem.

the Coug wrote:if you need more lift and were using the rockers to achieve it man the way I look at it a New cam is way cheaper than Shaft rockers..... I prefer Rocker Stud and everything connected much more stable....and Freakin hell of alot cheaper for no better system....


JMHO
Randy


and Boss 429 why the Hell are you yelling?

my caps lock is broke,and sometimes its on and other times its off, when i hit it,not yell, i just talk loud

YeAh MiNe StiCkS To SoMtImEs.............F-CkIn' CaPsLoCk, I AiN't ReTyPiN' ThAt ShIt.................

Hey guys,

Can't we all just get along with one another? Everybody count to 10 and just chill out and let's call a truce.

Uncle Charlie

c.evans wrote:Hey guys,

Can't we all just get along with one another? Everybody count to 10 and just chill out and let's call a truce.

Uncle Charlie

And these pissin match deals only confuse most people.