Harmonic balancer

Okay, after seeing what happened to Dr.wifes racing I want to make sure I have a good balancer. Its a 466 that wont turn more than 5,500 and is internally balanced. Now I know these ones should all be good but I know summit can have china made parts and I want to make sure I don't kick myself in the butt down the road. What is the diameter of the stock 1971 429 balancer? I want to make sure my timing pointer matches up, or maybe I will have to ignore the engraved marks and put some timing tape on it. Just want to be triple sure.

EDIT-Thinking of the first summit one, the trick flow, or ford racing. the first summit one seems like a good deal so I'm leaning on that one right now.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/Make/FORD/Engine-Size/7-5L-460/Part-Type/Harmonic-Balancers/Safety-Rating/SFI-18-1/?Ns=Price|Asc

pioneer makes a nice SFI Balancer.

dfree383 wrote:pioneer makes a nice SFI Balancer.

Seems impressive by what it says for it, thanks I'll look in to it.

"Professional Products" also makes a nice SFI (90000 series) one for a decent price. I have used 2 of these on builds so far and seem to be working well. 90008 Plus. About $175 Here's a link, you can probably get it cheaper somewhere else but this just shows a pic.

http://performanceparts.com/part.php?partID=204225

I have also used the FRPP A460 dampners. They are reasonable priced and are also nice. I will be using the newly released FRPP A521 version for 4.15" stroke and larger on my new 557" build.


FWIW Mark

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PFS-90008/

Seems good, see I wasn't checking out those or the Pioneer one's because I haven't heard of them. That's why I say the thing that trips me up is the experience, I wouldn't have known either were good. thank you guys, I will make sure to get one of the recommended one's.

By the way, I like how it is a bigger diameter. It makes it more accurate than the smaller ones.

EDIT-would this one be better for the street? I'm not trying to be cheap, I mean is it better for street than the other Professional Products dampener? I don't know if a race one will work well with a street motor, I'm not sure how they are setup differently. I would rather get the race one if it IS okay for the street though.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PFS-80008/

Mark Laczo wrote:"Professional Products" also makes a nice SFI (90000 series) one for a decent price.

Here is a thread "featuring" that exact damper. Don't think I will try one. ATI, Innovators West or FRPP for me.

https://www.429-460.com/general-discussion-f5/its-never-good-t5808-30.htm

David Cole wrote:

Mark Laczo wrote:"Professional Products" also makes a nice SFI (90000 series) one for a decent price.

Here is a thread "featuring" that exact damper. Don't think I will try one. ATI, Innovators West or FRPP for me.

https://www.429-460.com/general-discussion-f5/its-never-good-t5808-30.htm

That's the thread I was talking about, the one that made me want to make sure I get a good balancer. So maybe I wont get one of those, but would a "race dampener" work on a street engine? I don't know if a full on race dampener will work for the street.

So maybe FRPP is the way to go? Its down to that or the Pioneer. There is the summit brand but like I said, summit products aren't always good. They can be cheaply made from China.

The FRPP A460 unit has been around for years.
The FRPP A521 unit is a recent offering that is tuned for the stroker engines. I'm sure it was developed for the FRPP 521" crate engines.

I was just looking on your website. Another thing I need is an adjustable pointer or some tape. I can't find tape for that diameter though, I also can't find the pointer that you could buy not too long ago. Not the one Lem has but it had a needle that was sharpened for the pointer.

David,

Not trying to dispute your knowledge/experience but on a high end build it is probably not a good choice but for a more stock to mild performance build it would probably work well. I reread the link you posted and it looks like there may have been more going on than just a cheap dampner

c.evans wrote:Ward,

I hate to be a forebearer of bad news, but I see about 5 valves that have been hitting the pistons (mostly exhaust) and you know they will be bent. They have been run that way for a while, the broken crank didn't cause that. I suspect you'll see some bad bearings to. Is the cam's dowel pin sheared? Bottom line is, a careful study and inspection of the parts and the carnage is one of the most important things you can do. We all will appreciate the opportunity to learn from what this engine is telling us.
Charlie

Lem Evans wrote:My observations:
1] The whole of the crank is cast.
2] The snout is cast and long.
3] The damper was somewhere between not very and non-functional .
4] At some point with all of the above and any tune-up issues the crank cracked.......then it broke on that pass i.m.o.

Some combination of events/parts failure lead to this. Can it totally be the balancer or crank ? I do not know. What would be interesting is some way to qualify a dampner. A SFI is just a RPM rating is that correct ? Is there a life span on a dampner when the elastomer gets old and cracks or does not do its job. Should old dampners be tossed away after X runs or years ? Good info here though !



FWIW Mark

Mark Laczo wrote:David,

Not trying to dispute your knowledge/experience but on a high end build it may not be a good choice but for more stock to mild performance it would probably work well. I reread the link you posted and it looks like there may have been more going on than just a cheap dampner

c.evans wrote:Ward,

I hate to be a forebearer of bad news, but I see about 5 valves that have been hitting the pistons (mostly exhaust) and you know they will be bent. They have been run that way for a while, the broken crank didn't cause that. I suspect you'll see some bad bearings to. Is the cam's dowel pin sheared? Bottom line is, a careful study and inspection of the parts and the carnage is one of the most important things you can do. We all will appreciate the opportunity to learn from what this engine is telling us.

Charlie

FWIW Mark

Yeah I posted something about the valves hitting too. It has to be good if its working with your build, I mean he was pushing that engine. But I hear it was caused by a bad balancer so I didn't want to take any chances. I like that one, so I'm going to look into it more before I buy it of course.

I appreciate your guys help, I will try my best to make a smart choice.

I differ with Charlie on this one...the timing chain is hooked to the front of the crank...if the front of the crank falls off the engine is out of time and will bend valves.

So your thinking the crank came first? It looks (to me, I'm no expert) that they had been hitting for a while but I could be wrong. Ward did say that he pushed the engine really hard......

Aint no "while" to it .....the marks on the valves are clean and clear. If valves are tagging the pistons it'll work the head off of the valve VERY quickly.

Lem Evans wrote:Aint no "while" to it .....the marks on the valves are clean and clear. If valves are tagging the pistons it'll work the head off of the valve VERY quickly.

I think I'll just stick with FRPP then. But now I have to do something about my timing pointer 80 bucks extra for that little bugger, if I know it will work then its worth getting the FRPP one. Insurance...

EDIT-or the pioneer

A stock pointer won't work for you?
You do not need tape...most dampers have the timing marks on them.

bb429power wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:Aint no "while" to it .....the marks on the valves are clean and clear. If valves are tagging the pistons it'll work the head off of the valve VERY quickly.

I think I'll just stick with FRPP then. But now I have to do something about my timing pointer 80 bucks extra for that little bugger, if I know it will work then its worth getting the FRPP one. Insurance...

EDIT-or the pioneer

Ford Racing has a kick ass aluminum pointer.

Lem, I know the dampener has marks on it. What I was saying I needed tape or a new pointer for was because the new dampener wasn't the same diameter as the stock one. I'm just thinking about getting a new pointer to adjust to compensate for the difference in diameter. But I'm starting to think the stock one will still be dead on regardless of diameter by what your saying.

The FRPP units are the stock dia............so you'd be good to go will a good old cheap stock pointer.

Lem Evans wrote:The FRPP units are the stock dia............so you'd be good to go will a good old cheap stock pointer.

I could get the pioneer then spend $80 for a total of about $280.
OR I could get the FRPP dampener for about $280 Looks like I'm spending $280 either way.

Thanks for the info, how much would it cost to ship a FRPP dampener to MI from you? Area code is 48170, I don't know how to configure that. Plus how long would it take? about a week maybe?

$284.95 delivered.
Two days is normal to Detroit Metro area.

Okay, I'll talk to my dad about getting one from you Lem. But of course all of a sudden he just decided to buy some parts today so now I can get one right away. It should be fairly soon, sorry for the inconviniance. I'll let you know if I can't get one from you, I'll talk him in to buying from you.

can't go wrong with the Ford Racing or ATI