OK Guys...How about a Super Low Budget Build ?

Ya'll have done the 15 to 35K motors.... If you had Very little funds to work with..and I meen very little.. Being an all Iron 460 based motor.. Lets see what could be built on the cheap...the way it seem I'am gonna have to go just to get to the track some time i the next 2 years.. street/strip motor..I dont mind running a mix in the gas..for short runs to the cruise in....

Block-cost and why that one?
Best flowing heads (iron) cant afford aluminum-cost
Offset ground 460 crank ? Cost effective - yes/no cost
Good used forged pistons..

You guys get the idea...... Take a stab at it..and I'll take notes...Remember I'am the rookie..

And bottom line..what you think would be the final cost ?

For low cost block options, any factory block that checks out fine, whether it be a DOVE, D1VE, or D9TE. They will all cost about the same.
Heads, I'd find a good used set of anything already ported and ready to go. I bought a set of worked over DOVE's from 1bad521 Doug for less than a grand.
Crank, I'd call Adney Brown @ Performance Crankshaft and get the offset ground factory crank from him, it'll be fine and not much more than a stock stroke deal.
I would think you could get it done for under $5K if you look for some good deals. No matter how you slice it, it'll be close to $10/hp.

Got about 2,000 in this build:

Used block, D1VE
Used stock stroke crank
Used football rods with trw forged pistons on 'em
Used C8VE heads, ported by an unknown person
NOS Hastings ring set from the '70's
NOS cloyes roller timing set from the '70's
Used hooker 6115 headers
Used weiand action plus (small port stealth)
Used holley 850 DP
Used harland sharp roller rockers
Used pushrods
Used milodon deep sump pan

New gasket set
New rod/main bearings
New oil pump with some mods by myself
New taiwan super paper thin chrome valve covers
New comp XE284H cam and lifter set

That's it!

Dingleball hone, slap together, done......

Who knows what the HP is, but on street tires, 2000 stall, 3.00:1 gear on dry rotted street tires and thru the mufflers the car went 85 or 86 mph on it's first trip to the track... 1/8 mile.... It's in a '71 Torino, probably about 4000 lbs with driver. The car went thru the traps in 2nd gear, too!

Cheap is good!

Greg

Pretty good there Smitty and greg.....Keep um comin guys,,Today I'am liken cheap....But I refuse to stoop to the pro-comp heads...I draw the line there !! LOL

good info greg

If you are not going to turn a lot of rpm...the FRPP 4.300" crank can still be had for about $400...can use cheap stock rods .

Cool Lem, Thanks for the tip..I wasnt aware they were that cheap... I'll have to get with you when its time....

Thanks Lem , ya always come thru..

~Russ

Engine Build:

Shortblock:
1968 Lincoln Mark III donor (10.5:1 comp)
Reused bottom end sans new bearings and oil pump

Heads:
Stock valved c8 heads except for a little work around the valve guides and eliminated casting flash... stock valvetrain was used with comp magnum (stock length) pushrods and comp springs

Cam: (poor choice)
Comp Cams Magnum Cam 280 - single pattern, 230 @ .050, .530 lift

Intake:
Performer RPM...untouched

Carb:
4150 Holley 830 DP

Headers:
1 3/4" with 3" collectors...FPA "shorty" headers

Exhaust:
Full 3" exhaust with cheapo summit mufflers

Trans:
stock 72 galaxie c6 with a TCI valve body

Rear:
9" 3.50 gears, locker



Drag Results:

Best Pass:

60' - 1.82
1/8 ET - 7.84 @ 90mph
1/4 ET - 12.18 @ 113

The car weighs 3520 with me in it. Chassis dyno'd on a Dynojet at 355rwhp/400rwtq SAE.

Total amt invested in all the engine parts..including buying the whole parts car for $500 was right around $2.5k. (this includes gaskets, ignition...etc....everything)

I bought all the parts brand new from Summit.

I would say crank hp is 425 - so that's $5.88/hp

RapidRuss wrote:Ya'll have done the 15 to 35K motors.... If you had Very little funds to work with..and I meen very little.. Being an all Iron 460 based motor.. Lets see what could be built on the cheap...the way it seem I'am gonna have to go just to get to the track some time i the next 2 years.. street/strip motor..I dont mind running a mix in the gas..for short runs to the cruise in....

Block-cost and why that one?
Best flowing heads (iron) cant afford aluminum-cost
Offset ground 460 crank ? Cost effective - yes/no cost
Good used forged pistons..

You guys get the idea...... Take a stab at it..and I'll take notes...Remember I'am the rookie..

And bottom line..what you think would be the final cost ?

a little info on your idea of money your willing to spend , no sense in posting builds outside your budget.

Tell me how much your budget (Money) is,
How much HP you want
and how streetable it needs to be

SHORT BLOCK
you need a 460 that has a good crank so you can just buy a "ring and bearing " rebuild kit ($150). Stock pistons break the skirts off when you spin 6000 rpm, and hypers are junk, forged speed pros are the way to go. I bought domed .060 over (ebay) less than $300 (and if they are within 50 grams of stock I wont have to ballance). Clean block and parts your self. Let machine shop bore and hone to fit pistons, put pistons on rods ($150) Add oil pump and timming chain ($100), maybe included in a delux rebuild kit to save money. I like plain cast rings (no molly to come off).

CAM and lifter kit, hdy. of your choice!

HEADS (dirt cheap) Buy die grinder and carbide bit ($50). Grind "bumps" out of ex. port. Buy spring compresser (c style $60). Lap valves, new umbrella seals, good valve springs to fit stock retainers 125 lbs on the seat min.($150) Or maybe do the port work and let shop do valve job/set up heads

INTAKE Dirt cheap, open up stock 4v to clear throttle blades on 780 or 850 holley and/or use 1 inch 4 hole spacer

IGNITION Stock Eletronic Recurved, advance limmited or locked out.

Stock everything else, rockers, push rods ect...

Well Guys thats good question to ask..How much money can I throw at this... at this time its Zero...I'am just trying to get some idea's... I'am down for 2 ,omths now with foot surgery and will be back down for about 8 mons..afetr back surgery.. But My thinky is about 5k or so by next summer..I know to alot of you thats just a drop in the bucket..But i have had a major set -back..But I'am not willing as of yet to give up.. ts just in the blood..you guys know..you just cant shake it.. and I'am getting to old to keep thinking of my dream build and the money that would take..I want some seat time..before there is no time..

I have had quite a few good suggestions..Lem can get a FRPP 4.300" crank for about $400, I'll need to find some half way decent rods and upgraded bolts..and forged Pistons...where I live in Virginia, most of the farmers old trucks are completely worn out and generally only good for scrap..as I tried before to locate a D9 block years ago..when I first started with the Net54 room..and it was like trying to find hens teeth..

heads are going to be my other problem...As I havent port matched a set of heads since my Chebby altered days and that was some 30 years ago...Plus they place I would be putting this together at is My uncles shop... he's (62) just like a big brother to me.. But he has his Show Vette and his 69 Chevelle SS stored in there in between shows..and wouldnt want Flying Iron in his garage..which i understand..

It was also suggested to bite the bullit and spend the money and go to a solid roller cam set-up.. which I'll ask Lem to spec for me at that time..and Like i said before ..i dont have any problem with a gas mix..as this will only see about a 100 miles a month at that of Hwy driving to and from a cruise in..and then a few times a season at the track for some anger management !!

Someone asked me about how streetable it needs to be.. well ..we dont have any smog station here in the country... So if it will idle for a minute without loading up..and I can hang a tag on the bumper..I'am good with it...I hope that anawers your question..

Keep um comin guys ... I'am getting a good education out of this....I guess i watched the Big boy builds for so long..i almost forgot the basics..

is not low buck to me. At that level you can almost build a 557 with scj aluminum heads. Victor intake, Dominator carb $1000

Scat stroker kit $2000
Lems SCJs $1700

I wonder how much a ford crate motor is these days?

a few yrs back i built a 472 on the way cheap
for the top end i had a set of fully ported c8's with bigger valves
not shure how much i had into the heads but i know it was under 1,000 with rockers and pushrods
i found a used victor for 200
i did the port match myself
i used a dive block with a stock crank
that i had out back in good shape
had the crank polished
found a set of cat yes i said cat but they were under 200.00 on ebay
and i found a set of 60 over custom forged pistons for 300.00 used
used a melling hv pump with a stock pan
a soild roller cam from doug herbert and a set of herbert lifters
i know i had under 3k into it from pan to intake
and it ran sweet
but i did eventuly go with a scat stroker kit for around 1,500
with is what i would do again
if 5k is your buget you can build a heck of a mill
but if it is under that you can still build a good motor
i am gonna start another build myself just for a back up motor
and it is gonna be all used junk but sometimes those motors are the ones that
work great

mach1charlie wrote:I wonder how much a ford crate motor is these days?

About $10K shipped.

Another option, would be to call Carl Hansen of CarsbyCarl and order one of his crate motors. He has some dyno proven combos that would fit the budget.

This one will probably be gone by next summer, but deals are out there...
http://www.carsbycarl.com/Specials.html

http://www.carsbycarl.com/Crate_Engines.html

Are 460 blocks that hard to come by out east? I don't know how much it'd cost to ship a block but at the shop I work at we have a pallet with 3 460 blocks that were machined prior to us getting them and given to us in trade for allowing a guy to build his engine at our shop. I know there's at least 3 other blocks laying around with no machine work done to them too. I'm gonna go in and play with my car on the chassis dyno later today so I'll get some info on those blocks in case anybody's interested. I don't think they're anything special but who knows, maybe there's a diamond among all them rocks...

Well i dont think its the east coast at all... i think its just were I live and about a 100 mile radius... Because of the prices going up prior too the recession, any of the ford guys here that had a buck or two saved ..hit all the yards and some guys with multipule trucks and trailer and bought up just about everything... from the 460's on down to the 302's and everything in between.. I personally know 3 guys with 5 to 10 acres of nothing but old fords...and you couldnt pry and old ford radiator cap out of there hands.. they say there saving it all for there Grandsons to sell when they get old enough to really know the value..

A few years back I was looking for a 428 block for my 70 F250...I had looked for a few years loacally..and just for a block that hadnt been mag , or cleaned and no machining they wanted $600 to $800 at that time.... So I decided to look for a early to mid 70's 360 FE block a D4TE they had the CJ style crank saddle in them..to build another motor for the cracked block in my truck... I covered 7 wreckin yards here in Southern VA, and 2 in N.C. and dint find one... Then Damon Sea's Dad had a 428 core ..I was going to get...But by the time I had another truck running to get it..His Dad had sold it to a puller friend of his..

Now if I wanted to build a Chev or a Mopar !! I'am in the right part of the country.... I bought an older Dodge shortbed Power Ram 4x4 awhile back..and wanted to change the head to the #304's bigger ports and slightly bigger valve's that still fit the 318 block...I picked up a pair of those for $50 in about 2 phone calls.. When i lived out in SoCal 17 years ago....Ford parts were a dime a dozen...once again Chevy Country.. A guy that lives up the road , about a year ago bought an ambulance from the state auction with the 460 and the C6....He paid $500 for it...and wont sell just the running gear..he wants $2500 for the whole truck !! LOL..

But shipping can be a bitch too..thats why I have tried to locate stuff locally... There's one of my neighbors that about 50 FE powered cars and trucks...he even has nos of the rally gauges for the drag pack stangs from the 60's.. But will he sell anything ?? "NO" LOL..

Russ,
I have a D3 block you can have if you want it. #5 rod went in it. It probably needs a sleeve, or could possibly be bored over. Its not a very deep gough really. The bottom of the skirt got hammered slightly. I think a sleeve would fix it. I also have a stock crank that was in it too. It has a nik in it but no cracks I can tell. Adney welds ALOT of Pro Stock cranks he tells me.I could bring it down to Adney, then maybe he could get it to ya one way through some of us.

Maybe some of us could get some core parts together and meet ya at the bash or whatever. Or someone near you that is comming could haul them home for ya possibly???
How about it guys? Im only 50 miles from Adney, maybe a go-between? But Adney goes to the bash anyway.

Come On guys, LETS LOAD UP SOME JUNK FOR OLE RUSS. Maybe a little love package?
Regards.
Al

Well Al,

Thats cool....I dont know where I'll be with my back surgery when the bash happens ...But If i have had a couple months in the recoop mode.. A buddy on mine that lives up in CT..Is supposed to come down this way...and he'll do the driven....But I will show up come hell or high water at the bash... I have just missed out on to much the last couple years...Trying to save...and we all know how that went..LOL..So at least this time..Glenn an FE Buddy from CT, and I will split the bill for a room and gas..which will make it easier on both of us...

Plus I owe Bruno a a Six pack !! LOL.. and Damon a hard time...and dfree a kick in th ass just for grins and Charlie a Franklin County Moonshine t-shirt !! Its been hanging in my closet for 3 years now...It probably wont fit him now ...

Hyper ft 466 12:1, or small dome trw's 14:1, solid lifter ft, home ported doves, victor, used 8896 1050, 2" headers......

I am doing a 460, trying to stay under $1500

Well guys all very good suggestions, I talked last night to a friend about my Vet C-pay she's a Social worker not for the hospital but i the medical field... And I have 10K saved... But she said dont count your chickens before there hatched, As she wont be able to access my records. umtil tuesday..and with the back Op coming up..She thinks the co=pay will be over the $5K mark.. But she cant say for sure as the 2nd OP hasnt happened yet ? So me saying I had $5K was out of line.."I" personally didnt think it would be over that.. But I dont work for the Gov..

Schmitty !!

You brought up some very good idea's as usuall, and looking for a allready ported set of heads makes sense..depending on who did the work too ? LOL..

Grep_P...your build looks like you were in the right place at the right time there son ! and to top it off..you have chrome Taiwan valve covers too boot !! Nice touch !!

Lem you ol dog !

Good del on that FRPP Crank... useing stock rods , what kind of pistons are available and at what price ? Forged of course..

Somethingclever !

Nice build on the cheap Low 12's @ 113mph is real good for what you have invested ! Change a few things and you into the high 10's...

DanH,

I think I answered your question above... As I know what I have..But just dont know yet what the Govs gonna get ? I'll know more later...Sorry to be so Vague....was just trying to get idea's..

bbf-falcon,

Allready answered your question...Its just hard to tell right now..

Mach1Charlie,

You also brought up some good points too...

Jesse,

Nice build for under $3K....

and Last but not least dfree ! (Dave)

Are you Volunteering some of your porting services ?? J/K I think your in a different state every other day...I dont think you have time to wipe your ass !! I dont see how you young Guns do it !! I swear !

Thanks Guys for all the Comments..everything has been good food for thought !

~Russ

Come On guys, LETS LOAD UP SOME JUNK FOR OLE RUSS. Maybe a little love package?
Regards.
Al[/quote]

Al, Please don't ever use the term "love package" again.