Which cam for this budget 351w build ?

I am building a customer his first street / strip car.  I am basing this build off of the parts that he already has and off of the GT40 crate engine . [URL=https://s1097.photobucket.com/user/mustang872/media/image_18.jpeg.html][/UR]

So the cam that was in the crate 351 was a Hyd flat tappet . 491 in lift 509 ex lift. Duration @.050 in 220 ex 230 Lsa is 112. Compression is 9.0:1 compression on the for GT40 engine.

The block he has is 96 351w roller block , GT40P heads.speed pro .030 hypereutectic flat top Pistons with 4 valve reliefs. Which cam would be the best for this combo ?

Cam 1 Trick Flow Specialties TFS-51403001 - Trick Flow® Track Max® Hydraulic Roller Camshafts for Ford 5.0L
Camshaft, Hydraulic Roller, Advertised Duration 275/279, Lift .499/.510, Lobe Sep. 112, Small Ford, 5.0L, Each

Cam 2 Trick Flow Specialties TFS-51403002 - Trick Flow® Track Max® Hydraulic Roller Camshafts for Ford 5.0L
Camshaft, Hydraulic Roller, Advertised Duration 286/294, Lift .542/.563, Lobe Sep. 112, Small Ford, 5.0L, Each

How the vehicle is equipped and what is the major purpose of the use of this vehicle is most important as to what camshaft is in it.

28" tall tire, 3.73 ,gears c4 transmission, 3500 ss converter, long tube headers through bullet mufflers , 750 CFM double pumper , MSD ignition. Will have a trans brake and a two step. Weight of car with driver 2800lbs.

No power acceries other than alternator and water pump, will be street driven on nice days and raced almost every weekend that he can afford to go .

X303 or use the one that came in it.

http://www.roushyatesparts.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/ford_racing_camshafts.pdf


Or maybe a z cam. The Ford letter cams used to be pretty good.

supervel45 wrote:X303 or use the one that came in it.

The "Z" cam will make 405 horsepower using a Victor Jr. intake manifold and 950HP carb in that crate motor ... that combination was tested and there are more powerful camshafts in the same RPM range available off the shelf; just won't be as good "off idle".

After a bunch of testing ... The Comp grind which came in the original 393 crate motor and not available separately from Ford Racing works very well; XE282HR.
I think that the "Stage 3" TFS camshaft is just a little larger than, (but close to), that Comp Grind.
Their 002 grind runs about the same as a "Z".

He just picked up a nice 351W edelbrock air gap rpm performer intake for 125 bucks.

whitefield wrote:He just picked up a nice 351W edelbrock air gap rpm performer intake for 125 bucks.

Then for sure, use the bigger "Stage 3" camshaft.

We haven't ordered a cam yet but we found this cam that is a retrofit cam.

Here are the cam specs.

.584 Intake .579 exhaust
Duration@ .050 is 242 intake 248 exhaust.
Lobe separation is 106
Intake centerline is 102 .

What you think pass on on it or buy it? It is New in box.

 Thanks Whitey

whitefield wrote:We haven't ordered a cam yet but we found this cam that is a retrofit cam.

Here are the cam specs.

.584 Intake .579 exhaust
Duration@ .050 is 242 intake 248 exhaust.
Lobe separation is 106
Intake centerline is 102 .

What you think pass on on it or buy it? It is New in box.

 Thanks Whitey

IF it is claimed to be "RETRO FIT" be sure it is NOT a small base circle camshaft.

whitefield wrote:We haven't ordered a cam yet but we found this cam that is a retrofit cam.

Here are the cam specs.

.584 Intake .579 exhaust
Duration@ .050 is 242 intake 248 exhaust.
Lobe separation is 106
Intake centerline is 102 .

What you think pass on on it or buy it? It is New in box.

 Thanks Whitey

If the base circle and all or OK, I would say it would make good bottom end (relatively speaking for a large cam) mid range power by the specs. I might install that one 2 to 4 degree's retarded myself.

supervel45 wrote:

If the base circle and all or OK, I would say it would make good bottom end (relatively speaking for a large cam) mid range power by the specs. I might install that one 2 to 4 degree's retarded myself.

Not retarded with those rev limited cast iron GT-40 heads ... straight to 4 degrees advanced would run much better.

rmcomprandy wrote:

supervel45 wrote:

If the base circle and all or OK, I would say it would make good bottom end (relatively speaking for a large cam) mid range power by the specs. I might install that one 2 to 4 degree's retarded myself.

Not retarded with those rev limited cast iron GT-40 heads ... straight to 4 degrees advanced would run much better.

That makes sense, I was not thinking of the handicapped heads. On a 102 ICL I bet it will have quite a bit of low end and midrange. My Lunati degreed in at about 102.5 to 103.5 and was speced at 104 with a 108LSA. Hopefully it will me good down low and midrange.

Mike, does it have the GT-40 heads on it?

IDT-572 wrote:Mike, does it have the GT-40 heads on it?

GT40P with light home blending and polishing . Nothing major.

Ain't much head for a 351 inch engine. I would look into a set of cheap azz Procomps and put on it.

I did a 302 for a guy here in town with an out of the box set and a 230-236 on a 106 sep HR that ran like a scalded dog.

Ran a 10.35 1/4 mile @ 135 mph on a 150 shot.

Most on here wont like the cam I put in it, but it worked great.

Come on Blake, everyone knows HR's cant't run good. Icons broke.

IDT-572 wrote:Ain't much head for a 351 inch engine.  I would look into a set of cheap azz Procomps and put on it.

I did a 302 for a guy here in town with an out of the box set and a 230-236 on a 106 sep HR that ran like a scalded dog.

Ran a 10.35 1/4 mile @ 135 mph  on a 150 shot.

Most on here wont like the cam I put in it, but it worked great.

I know it isn't, but a few things I am looking at on this build . One the customer has a set budget two he is furnishing all of the parts and for the most part already has most all of the parts. Three it isn't my build. The heads already have the port work and screw in studs and guide plates, pistons and rings are new fresh .030 block. Headers, carb and cam is all he likes .

I understand heads are the limiting factor. It also is his first true street/strip car.

whitefield wrote:

IDT-572 wrote:Ain't much head for a 351 inch engine.  I would look into a set of cheap azz Procomps and put on it.

I did a 302 for a guy here in town with an out of the box set and a 230-236 on a 106 sep HR that ran like a scalded dog.

Ran a 10.35 1/4 mile @ 135 mph  on a 150 shot.

Most on here wont like the cam I put in it, but it worked great.

I know it isn't, but a few things I am looking at on this build . One the customer has a set budget two he is furnishing all of the parts and for the most part already has most all of the parts. Three it isn't my build. The heads already have the port work and screw in studs and guide plates, pistons and rings are new fresh .030 block. Headers, carb and cam is all he likes .

I understand heads are the limiting factor. It also is his first true street/strip car.

Custom NOS cam

Using a cam which is way to big for the heads, (that cam is not WAY to big), will simply take a lot of torque off the bottom of the RPM range without adding much Horsepower to the top of the range.

The "P" heads have a smaller volume intake port, (though they do flow as much air), and smaller exhaust valve size than the regular iron GT-40 heads and have a spark plug angle and location which doesn't fit with a lot of headers in the marketplace.
Just be aware...

rmcomprandy wrote:Using a cam which is way to big for the heads, (that cam is not WAY to big), will simply take a lot of torque off the bottom of the RPM range without adding much Horsepower to the top of the range.

The "P" heads have a smaller volume intake port, (though they do flow as much air), and smaller exhaust valve size than the regular iron GT-40 heads and have a spark plug angle and location which doesn't fit with a lot of headers in the marketplace.
Just be aware...

Randy, would you not want to build the torque faster with the lower upper rpm potential of the cast iron gt-40p heads....

What about the Z cam and split ratio rockers with the large ratio on the exhaust side?

gmsmkr wrote:

rmcomprandy wrote:Using a cam which is way to big for the heads, (that cam is not WAY to big), will simply take a lot of torque off the bottom of the RPM range without adding much Horsepower to the top of the range.

The "P" heads have a smaller volume intake port, (though they do flow as much air), and smaller exhaust valve size than the regular iron GT-40 heads and have a spark plug angle and location which doesn't fit with a lot of headers in the marketplace.
Just be aware...

Randy, would you not want to build the torque faster with the lower upper rpm potential of the cast iron gt-40p heads....

FIRST ... I'd want to make sure the heads I use will fit with my application or I can get the correct support parts to make them fit..
2nd ... IF velocity becomes to high within the intake port after the pushrod pinch, (no matter what the air flows show), the loss on the top may not be worth the gain on the bottom. THAT is to be decided.

With my limited knowledge on the iron gt40 heads most of what I have messed with they run out of steam around 580 valve lift... now there are ways to crutch them but with the heads flowing so well down low they are a killer head for a solid flat tappet cam combo with 600 valve lift or less... this is all just from what I have messed with them

gmsmkr wrote:With my limited knowledge on the iron gt40 heads most of what I have messed with they run out of steam around 580 valve lift... now there are ways to crutch them but with the heads flowing so well down low they are a killer head for a solid flat tappet cam combo with 600 valve lift or less... this is all just from what I have messed with them

Your correct on a 302 inch engine, but I'm with Randy on air speed, I think you will see a choke and power loss on a good cammed Windsor.

Cross section is very small on the intake and exhaust. peak flow is less than 200 cfm @ .600 and exhaust wont break 130 cfm.

Blending won't pick up much.